PR chances and when to apply guidance please?

[Shortbread]

Hi Everyone

Firstly, thank you so much for having this resource for people like me to refer to! I wanted some guidance on 1) my chances of PR approval and 2) when to apply, given our age. Please forgive the length of this post and the details I have included. I'm only sharing the educational and salary details because the immigration agent used by my company told me it was relevant to my chances and timing.

Me: Female Malaysian (Ceylon Tamil),
Age: 45 (46 in Dec)
Occupation: regional legal director at a US tech company
Salary: 300k+
Education:All pre-university schooling in Singapore from age 6-18 (Raffles Girls School and Raffles Junior College)
University: Cambridge University (BA & MA)

Husband: British (White)
Age: 52 (53 in Dec)
Occupation: chief scientist at a cancer research company
Salary:150k
Education: PhD, Imperial College, London & BsC, University College, London. He also spent many years as an academic at University College London

Children: 1 son aged 2

We are both EP holders and arrived in Singapore a year ago. My company's immigration agent told us to either apply now or in 6 months (by which time we would have been here for 18 months) because 1) age (especially my husband's) is against us and 2) as the primary applicant, I can rely on the fact that I spent 12 years in Singapore as a student and therefore already know it well etc and can bypass the "2 year minimum stay" de facto rule. They have said our chances are quite good but I'm keen to hear your views because I have seen lots of younger people with more children get rejected.

Specifically, do you think we should apply now (1 year stay, age 45 and 52), or apply in 6 months by which time we will be 46 and 53?

Thank you in advance!

[therat]

Presently you are 45 yrs old.
You left Singapore at age of 18 which is 27 yrs ago.
Your immigration agent said " therefore already know it well". Know what well?
27 yrs empty slot.

Personally, I don't think this schooling time will add anything. Just my thought.

[PNGMK]

Very low. You'll end up in the "others" bucket I fear (which is marginally better than the "Indian" bucket). I guess your agent is trying to claim you have tied to Singapore already but that's pushing it IMHO. Your agent is right about age being an issue as Singapore wants breeders, not pensioners. Apply after one tax year and then every year hence as a family (which means committing your son to NS - if you try to avoid that no chance).

[TropicalExpat]

PNGMK said it all ...

[Shortbread]

Thank you all for the candid responses. I feared as much. So are you saying best to wait until I’ve done a full tax year even if it means I will be 46 instead of 45 when I apply? Thanks again.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Go ahead and apply, but with no illusions. Heavily weighted against you but at the same time we have seen a couple of times that have gone against virtually all of our 'bets' against it. Is your son in good health? If so please insure that you apply as an entire family as otherwise PNGMK is correct on that point. I ask after his health as you waited pretty late in life to have a child ('if' this was your first).

At this point you both are already past the theoretical mark of 45 so I'd consider applying after the 6 months and again at 18 months if not successful with the first. Both your husband's work is extremely useful as is your own. Both medical research and legal positions are valuable to the country as a whole. Singapore loses a very high percentage of the lawyers they train as most enter the profession at the instigation of their Asian Tiger parents. Good Luck and please keep us informed as to your progress and success/failure. It's our readers who create and add to our database of knowledge here.

[smoulder]

Very low. You'll end up in the "others" bucket I fear (which is marginally better than the "Indian" bucket). I guess your agent is trying to claim you have tied to Singapore already but that's pushing it IMHO. Your agent is right about age being an issue as Singapore wants breeders, not pensioners. Apply after one tax year and then every year hence as a family (which means committing your son to NS - if you try to avoid that no chance).

Out of curiosity, why is being in the Indian bucket considered worse off than being in others?

[ProvenPracticalFlexible]

Isn't Malaysian Indian (Tamil) from ICAs integration to society pretty much same as Malaysian Chinese. Same way easier integrating to society compared to PRC or Indian nationals. How much benefit that gives is another story but still better chance than any non-Malaysian.

Plus local elite schools meaning probably still old school friends to socialise and relate to, thus integrating to society. Also degrees from actual real top universities that Singapore looks upto.

Age is against you, but on the other hand you are both working in professions where people typically don't retire at 62 or 65 but work until much older and thus can contribute longer to society compared to typical bank's IT department etc salary jobs.

[PNGMK]

Very low. You'll end up in the "others" bucket I fear (which is marginally better than the "Indian" bucket). I guess your agent is trying to claim you have tied to Singapore already but that's pushing it IMHO. Your agent is right about age being an issue as Singapore wants breeders, not pensioners. Apply after one tax year and then every year hence as a family (which means committing your son to NS - if you try to avoid that no chance).

Out of curiosity, why is being in the Indian bucket considered worse off than being in others?

It's being reduced according to the last stats paper (by inference). It is effectively zeroed out at present except for taitai cases (bank presidents etc).

[PNGMK]

Isn't Malaysian Indian (Tamil) from ICAs integration to society pretty much same as Malaysian Chinese. Same way easier integrating to society compared to PRC or Indian nationals. How much benefit that gives is another story but still better chance than any non-Malaysian.

Plus local elite schools meaning probably still old school friends to socialise and relate to, thus integrating to society. Also degrees from actual real top universities that Singapore looks upto.

Age is against you, but on the other hand you are both working in professions where people typically don't retire at 62 or 65 but work until much older and thus can contribute longer to society compared to typical bank's IT department etc salary jobs.

FYI I have seen Tamils (from Sri Lanka and India) achieve more success for PR than Hindi's. The background does count. Also I suspect Punjabs probably do ok as well. Both Tamil and Punjabs were brought in as labourers / planters and police/army in the early days and have long established communities in Malaysia and Singapore.

[Shortbread]

Go ahead and apply, but with no illusions. Heavily weighted against you but at the same time we have seen a couple of times that have gone against virtually all of our 'bets' against it. Is your son in good health? If so please insure that you apply as an entire family as otherwise PNGMK is correct on that point. I ask after his health as you waited pretty late in life to have a child ('if' this was your first).

At this point you both are already past the theoretical mark of 45 so I'd consider applying after the 6 months and again at 18 months if not successful with the first. Both your husband's work is extremely useful as is your own. Both medical research and legal positions are valuable to the country as a whole. Singapore loses a very high percentage of the lawyers they train as most enter the profession at the instigation of their Asian Tiger parents. Good Luck and please keep us informed as to your progress and success/failure. It's our readers who create and add to our database of knowledge here.

Hi Sundaymorningstaple

Thanks for your response and guidance, it is much appreciated, along with all the other responses we have had. Just to clarify, we intend to apply as a family and we are fine with our son doing NS. And to answer your other question, yes our little boy is perfectly healthy at the moment. He is our first and only child - unfortunately we can plan many things in life but perhaps not when we might meet the right person and marry him/her - that's why we are such old first time parents:)

I will certainly update you all on the outcome of our application and share anything I learn through this experience, regardless of the outcome.

Wish us luck!!

[Shortbread]

Isn't Malaysian Indian (Tamil) from ICAs integration to society pretty much same as Malaysian Chinese. Same way easier integrating to society compared to PRC or Indian nationals. How much benefit that gives is another story but still better chance than any non-Malaysian.

Plus local elite schools meaning probably still old school friends to socialise and relate to, thus integrating to society. Also degrees from actual real top universities that Singapore looks upto.

Age is against you, but on the other hand you are both working in professions where people typically don't retire at 62 or 65 but work until much older and thus can contribute longer to society compared to typical bank's IT department etc salary jobs.

Hi ProvenPracticalFlexible

Thanks for your optimism and your feedback - I hope we are seen as having all the attributes of your username and thereby manage to defy the odds:) I'll keep you all posted.
Cheers!

[sundaymorningstaple]

I will certainly update you all on the outcome of our application and share anything I learn through this experience, regardless of the outcome.

Wish us luck!!

The latest figures as recently quoted in the paper regarding immigration quotas from a Minister is that ethnic numbers will still be controlled by immigration (the current demographic for the past 10 years is Chinese 76%; Malay 15%; Indians 7.5%; and others (including all other races as well as eurasians as per Singapore definition) 1.5%). The updated figures show Malays with a 1% increase and Indian down from 9% and Others down .5% during the estimate during the 2011 GE . The government Minister stated the current ethnic percentages would continue to be maintained via immigration at the current ethnic percentages according to the news report.

This means the slices of the pie for Indians and Others is gotten much smaller with more and more vying for the same few lots.

NB: I started my family at a late age as well with my wife having her first @ 38 & 2nd @ 43 so the first born was already considered as being in the high risk category. That was the reason I asked. Both of mine were okay. Today they are both married (30 & 35 and have 2.9 Grandchildren as well) (3rd due Nov 1st).

[Shortbread]

Quick (and joyous) update! Our PR application was approved last week! After 10 months and 3 weeks.

Summary of what I did if it’s of any help and some of the stumbling blocks (or what I thought would be the death knell for our application):

I applied exactly 18 months after arriving in SG (read more above about my age and other factors)

What I did:

1) got letters addressed to ICA from every employer I’ve had since 1997 confirming job and salary. This was hard work but I felt it was important.

2) current employer wrote a detailed job description for me and explained I had been relocated from the UK and promoted a year after being in SG

3) current employer applied for EP renewal 6 months before current EP expired so I could apply for PR with ‘renewed EP’ status

4) I also applied for an LTVP for my mum (this was done for legitimate reasons but she then changed her mind about coming to live here and we cancelled the first application after it was approved). We then reapplied 1 month ago (she changed her mind again and is now coming) and the LTVP was approved 3 weeks before the PR - not sure if this evidenced intention to stay here long term.

3) i wrote and rewrote my personal ‘achievements’ paragraph in the application and did my best to ensure it was honest and heartfelt.

Stumbling blocks:

1) husband was made redundant from his job in May of 2021 (2 months after application submitted) but got a role with government research agency a few months later. I notified ICA immediately after both events.

I hope the above helps! I didn’t do any ‘charity stuff’ which I mentioned in the application (although I am an active fund raiser in my private life for 3 NGOs).

I did have private health insurance in place for the family in addition to work private health insurance- just to evidence an intent to live here long term (eg even if we changed jobs).

No investments in Singapore apart from a life insurance policy.

On the advice of my HR team I also didn’t move regular sums of money from mr SG account to overseas accounts.

Paid my income tax in full immediately upon receipt of IRAS notice.

Good luck to you all!