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PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

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PNGMK
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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 13 Jul 2020 3:42 pm

jamie9vardy wrote:
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 3:27 pm
Some may say it’s a brilliant tactical move to prevent the headline that reads ‘PAP lost 3 GRCs and an SMC’. But at what cost? For a PM in waiting to be sitting in a ward with a wafer-thin margin is such a disadvantage and it’s scary.

GCT and LHL never left their home base and their vote shares are always higher than the national popular votes. Even Tharman (more so) and Teo Chee Hean never moved bases.

Meanwhile, the call for Tharman to be PM has resurfaced when LHL hinted that the transition plan may have been delayed or derailed. Let’s see the cabinet line up that’s due to be announced in 2 weeks’ time.
I've never understood the logic of "generational" political change here. You don't go it in generations, you do it person by person. The risks of changing out a whole team (3G for 4G) are becoming very apparent.
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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by BigginHill » Mon, 13 Jul 2020 3:51 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 3:42 pm
I've never understood the logic of "generational" political change here.
Me neither. I think it's a PAP narrative of sorts.

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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 13 Jul 2020 4:00 pm

BigginHill wrote:
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 3:51 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 3:42 pm
I've never understood the logic of "generational" political change here.
Me neither. I think it's a PAP narrative of sorts.
Maybe something LKY invented?
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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by BigginHill » Mon, 13 Jul 2020 4:27 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 4:00 pm
Maybe something LKY invented?
I think that's exactly what it is. The PAP acts as a unity. It's decidedly not personality driven. I believe LKY himself abhorred idolisation and populism.

I guess when PAP policy changes, it tends to come in cycles - like the regular economic reviews... - last one was Committee on the Future Economy (2017)

Reading through LKY's memoirs, apart from being profoundly anti-communist, he does seem to have some affinity for how historical Chinese style rule is organised.

Sorry, slightly less serious tangent - stumbled across this disaffected South African's rant on why he's leaving China after 14 years...(well, acting as an independent foreign media person in China probably didn't make his life any easier, huh'?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWgqdfAomVI

You know, you are allowed to have a little gripe here or there, but you MAY not criticise
the government or anything that is a result of what the government has done. Power and control
is what the CCP cares about above all else, and they maintain this through "social harmony".

Which is another term for stagnation and mediocrity.

"Go about your day you stupid sheep - eat, breed, study, work, listen to the government and don't you dare make waves.!

You step out of line and give anyone else the idea that there's more to life than "guòrìzi", then you'll be dealt with.

Remember, to be rich is glorious - so put your head down, be a monotonous robot, and your only ambitions can be to make more money and make China richer. That's it.


...

Oh no, we're China-Lite! :D (or rather we used to be)

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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by jamie9vardy » Mon, 13 Jul 2020 4:33 pm

PNGMK wrote:
BigginHill wrote:
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 3:51 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 3:42 pm
I've never understood the logic of "generational" political change here.
Me neither. I think it's a PAP narrative of sorts.
Maybe something LKY invented?
Could well be that, so that in one cohort they agree who is the first among equal and not spend time jostling for the position. Could be PAP’s brand of stability and continuity (outdated or not in today’s world is another discussion). Otherwise we may see M (almost a centenarian) fighting with A, whom he has been fighting with since 1998, for the premiership, and not forgetting how M played out 2 consecutive successors to reclaim the premiership.

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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by BigginHill » Mon, 13 Jul 2020 4:41 pm

jamie9vardy wrote:
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 4:33 pm
Could well be that, so that in one cohort they agree who is the first among equal and not spend time jostling for the position.
Without a doubt.

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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by SGBoyxxx » Mon, 13 Jul 2020 5:44 pm

Summary , LKY himself does for seem that PAP degrade just matter of times.

Q What about beyond 10 years?

Mr Lee I think there will come a time when eventually the public will say, look, let's try the other side, either because the PAP has declined in quality or the opposition has put up a team which is equal to the PAP and they say, let's try the other side. It must come.

Q How will it happen?

Mr Lee It depends on when it happens and whether it happens all of a sudden or it happens gradually. If the decline in standards happens gradually, an opposition will emerge of quality. I mean, the public can sense it.

I think the more likely is a gradual evolution because it is most unlikely the way we have evolved the party and the renewal of the party leadership that you will get such a clash of opinions that it will divide the whole leadership, the MPs and the party machinery into two, or into one major part, one minor part.
https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/singa ... e-kuan-yew

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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by Wd40 » Wed, 22 Jul 2020 8:37 pm

Max Headroom wrote:
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:26 pm
Yeah, no need to push down FT numbers, because their numbers have already started going down in a hurry I hear, courtesy of Corona.

As WD stated earlier, once HR realizes that Zooming works equally well from Melbourne, Bangalore, London, and what have you, as it does from Tampines, East Coast en HV, many of the expats still remaining here will shortly be facing the old heave-ho.

That said, Singapore is resourceful; they always seem to be able to reinvent themselves. They may once again come up with a rabbit.
Meanwhile UK is going in the other direction. They are introducing a points based system for work visas, without caps and EU and non EU citizens will be treated on par. Indians will be delighted to hear this.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home ... ion-system

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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by PNGMK » Wed, 22 Jul 2020 10:19 pm

That points system has no pathway for the farm and low skill labour workers they need in the UK
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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by BigginHill » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 10:16 am

PNGMK wrote:
Sat, 11 Jul 2020 11:14 am
Yes but remember that is now 2 GRC in the control of an anti foreigner / migration party. Do not forget that. While they are not as bad as SDP no opposition party (IMO) supports the PAP levels of migration (via PR) or dependency on FT (via EP or WP).
Even the PAP is ratcheting up the rhetoric. Prominent PAP MP...

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... y-13068098

- "Tougher measures to tackle hiring bias, including EP quotas and ending tax breaks"

- The unions will “closely watch the actions of employers”, while urging workers in non-unionised companies to join a union so they will be protected.

- Companies with highly disproportionate numbers of foreign professionals, a weak commitment to nurture and strengthen the "Singaporean core", and weak relevance to Singapore’s economy and society.


I don't think I've ever heard the last part in a Singapore context before.

What's the next bright idea - Malaysia bumiputera & Thailand style majority local ownership?

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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by the observer » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 10:23 am

BigginHill wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 10:16 am
PNGMK wrote:
Sat, 11 Jul 2020 11:14 am
Yes but remember that is now 2 GRC in the control of an anti foreigner / migration party. Do not forget that. While they are not as bad as SDP no opposition party (IMO) supports the PAP levels of migration (via PR) or dependency on FT (via EP or WP).
Even the PAP is ratcheting up the rhetoric. Prominent PAP MP...

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... y-13068098

- "Tougher measures to tackle hiring bias, including EP quotas and ending tax breaks"

- The unions will “closely watch the actions of employers”, while urging workers in non-unionised companies to join a union so they will be protected.

- Companies with highly disproportionate numbers of foreign professionals, a weak commitment to nurture and strengthen the "Singaporean core", and weak relevance to Singapore’s economy and society.


I don't think I've ever heard the last part in a Singapore context before.

What's the next bright idea - Malaysia bumiputera & Thailand style majority local ownership?
Therein lies the other side of democracy. To stay in power, you need the common man's vote, ie populism.

Edit:
1. electoral boundaries have been gerry mandered.
2. traditionally, singaporeans dont like to rock the boat during troubling times.
3. Cash handouts, support schemes

Yet, they lost more seats.
Nearly lost the future PM designate's group of seats.
Nearly lost another group of seats to an Octogenarian.

Its quite telling, isnt it.

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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 3:46 pm


Therein lies the other side of democracy. To stay in power, you need the common man's vote, ie populism.

Edit:
1. electoral boundaries have been gerry mandered.
2. traditionally, singaporeans dont like to rock the boat during troubling times.
3. Cash handouts, support schemes

Yet, they lost more seats.
Nearly lost the future PM designate's group of seats.
Nearly lost another group of seats to an Octogenarian.

Its quite telling, isnt it.
Yes, and for once the scales have tipped enough that the PAP need to look at the view of the common man... (well they did before in the 2012 one from memory when PR/SC approvals were slashed). Horse bolted barn door though.,
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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by SGBoyxxx » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 4:58 pm

to be honest, be if you are PR , expats whatever currently working in SG or plan to stay long as New citizen etc

with this New pap is going to Ruin everyone including your kids future in SG. Be it you are Singaporean , New citizen to be honest.

This PAP is NOT THE OLD PAP used to be lead by LKY

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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by the observer » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 5:40 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 3:46 pm
Yes, and for once the scales have tipped enough that the PAP need to look at the view of the common man... (well they did before in the 2012 one from memory when PR/SC approvals were slashed). Horse bolted barn door though.,
I can sense that whilst the Ministers are holding their ground, the lower level MPs are seeking more protectionist measures. Dissent?

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Re: PAP vs WP. WP now hold 10 seats.

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 6:08 pm

the observer wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 5:40 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 3:46 pm
Yes, and for once the scales have tipped enough that the PAP need to look at the view of the common man... (well they did before in the 2012 one from memory when PR/SC approvals were slashed). Horse bolted barn door though.,
I can sense that whilst the Ministers are holding their ground, the lower level MPs are seeking more protectionist measures. Dissent?
Maybe, some of the PAP are simply obtuse though. I am pleased with the leader of the opposition however. He has been very strategic and tactical in his suggestions. Nothing radical that the PAP can shake their finger at but the sort of suggestions (i.e. more subcommittees) that will create a wedge...
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