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Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

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sndy
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Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by sndy » Fri, 26 Jun 2020 10:59 pm

Hi folks, just like many of you I have fallen victim to LL and agent duo as well.

So the agent + his colleague did a pretty aggressive handover drill but couldn't much, miniscule wear & tear were put as defect.
Both signed handover list and left.
Later that day after the handover the agent added more defects which I had no clue of, along with cleaning charges

LL didn't bother to transfer the rental deposit with 14 days breaching the contract. Upon followup came up with a quotation almost equivalent to the deposit amount.

Refused to let me engage my contractor for 1 rectification, I filled a SCT case and the agent transferred around 200$ on same day.

During first consultation he said he will be filling counter claims for AC servicing as services done during my tenancy were of unrealistically cheap prices.

And another 4k for a defect added post the handover.

Would appreciate if someone can share their experience in SCT on defects claimed post the handover, I see lots of similar posts here but nothing on how actually things went in Sct consultation or hearing ](*,)

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tt1973
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by tt1973 » Sat, 27 Jun 2020 8:54 pm

The first meeting in SCT is sort of like mediation process.

Do you have any pictures of the condition of the property when it was handed to you at the beginning of the lease?

Do you have any agent representing you? If yes, this agent should assist you accordingly. If you are not represented by any agent in this lease, this entire hand back process and fault / defect finding will be one sided and will be all against you.

sndy
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by sndy » Sat, 27 Jun 2020 9:18 pm

Yes do have few pictures but my contention is on the fact that the agent has added couple of defects after the handover was completed, are not mentioned in the agreed handover list and these new defect pics have timestamp after I left the place.

Hopefully I won't be held accountable for those atleast, rest all are miniscule wear and tear issues and not actual defects.

And no I didn't have an agent

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PNGMK
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by PNGMK » Sun, 28 Jun 2020 8:54 am

It won't be one side at all. It will be a mediated outcome. If you have the aircon service Bill's take them with you. You will end up meeting the middle somewhere. Do it.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by x9200 » Sun, 28 Jun 2020 12:26 pm

sndy wrote:
Sat, 27 Jun 2020 9:18 pm
[..] my contention is on the fact that the agent has added couple of defects after the handover was completed, are not mentioned in the agreed handover list and these new defect pics have timestamp after I left the place.
Be careful with this. It's a common misconception that you can not be held responsible for any damage not listed during the hand over. This is not true. An example - some not obvious or deliberately hidden damages. Of course you are not responsible for any damage that occurred after the hand over so a better strategy may be:
1) let them mention the unlisted damages and see if you can prove they were not there at the hand over time. If they try to do something like this, then they are done possibly including criminal charges.
2) any minor damage may be always contested wear and tear based.
3) any unreasonable amount for a damage - have you own quotations if possible

But if they claim, for example, a hinge was broken and you think or know it was broken, then I think you should pay regardless it was on the list or not.

sndy
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by sndy » Sun, 28 Jun 2020 6:12 pm

x9200 wrote:
Sun, 28 Jun 2020 12:26 pm
sndy wrote:
Sat, 27 Jun 2020 9:18 pm
[..] my contention is on the fact that the agent has added couple of defects after the handover was completed, are not mentioned in the agreed handover list and these new defect pics have timestamp after I left the place.
Be careful with this. It's a common misconception that you can not be held responsible for any damage not listed during the hand over. This is not true. An example - some not obvious or deliberately hidden damages. Of course you are not responsible for any damage that occurred after the hand over so a better strategy may be:
1) let them mention the unlisted damages and see if you can prove they were not there at the hand over time. If they try to do something like this, then they are done possibly including criminal charges.
2) any minor damage may be always contested wear and tear based.
3) any unreasonable amount for a damage - have you own quotations if possible

But if they claim, for example, a hinge was broken and you think or know it was broken, then I think you should pay regardless it was on the list or not.

I can prove the defect pictures taken by agent itself are after I left the aptmnt. and will mention that the small 539 sq ft place was checked pretty aggressively by not one but two agents for over an hour, prepared a handwritten defect list signed by both of us and that I genuinely do not have any knowledge of those defects during my tenancy.

Also I have shared my quotations for agreed defects but the owner is forcing to choose his Contractor who is quoting thrice the amount.

And the thing I find laughable is that the agent & owner are now claiming that I am a bully and hence they could not do a proper handover & will not allow me to engage my contractor.

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PNGMK
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by PNGMK » Sun, 28 Jun 2020 7:19 pm

You will find SCT receptive. They are used to these clowns and these clowns may back down before you even get to court.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

sndy
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by sndy » Sun, 28 Jun 2020 8:05 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Sun, 28 Jun 2020 7:19 pm
You will find SCT receptive. They are used to these clowns and these clowns may back down before you even get to court.
Thanks good to hear that!

sndy
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by sndy » Tue, 07 Jul 2020 8:35 pm

UPDATE: Settled in SCT

SCT is definitely receptive and they laid down the rules clearly enough for the parties incase we proceed for a hearing.
Which in turn mellowed down the owner and he suddenly become willing for a settlement as compared to filling a counter claim & keeping the entire rental deposit earlier.

To honest renters out there, do fight it out if you ever get yourself in similar situations 👍🏻

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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by bgd » Tue, 07 Jul 2020 8:48 pm

That's good news. Useful for others. Thanks for the feedback.

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PNGMK
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 07 Jul 2020 10:08 pm

sndy wrote:
Tue, 07 Jul 2020 8:35 pm
UPDATE: Settled in SCT

SCT is definitely receptive and they laid down the rules clearly enough for the parties incase we proceed for a hearing.
Which in turn mellowed down the owner and he suddenly become willing for a settlement as compared to filling a counter claim & keeping the entire rental deposit earlier.

To honest renters out there, do fight it out if you ever get yourself in similar situations 👍🏻
Thanks. It's ALWAYS worth going to SCT if you have a case that is arguable.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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abbby
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by abbby » Wed, 08 Jul 2020 9:30 am

sndy wrote:
Tue, 07 Jul 2020 8:35 pm
UPDATE: Settled in SCT

SCT is definitely receptive and they laid down the rules clearly enough for the parties incase we proceed for a hearing.
Which in turn mellowed down the owner and he suddenly become willing for a settlement as compared to filling a counter claim & keeping the entire rental deposit earlier.

To honest renters out there, do fight it out if you ever get yourself in similar situations 👍🏻
Thanks for sharing your update, good for others to know and very useful.. =D>
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. - Groucho Marx (1890-1977)

sndy
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by sndy » Tue, 28 Jul 2020 7:17 pm

Well I did not think I would be posting anymore in this thread.. here it goes

Even after the court order given I am yet to receive the settlement amount, with the deadline ending in just 3 days I do not see that happening.

Aware of the fact that I can enforce the order, but then again I would have to shell out more money to do so.

So instead thinking if I can apply to set aside the order, given that I agreed to settle and bear some loss in the interest of saving time & avoiding anymore hassle.
And let this go to hearing in SCT, get a new order hopefully favorable than settlement amount and then go about enforcing it?

Anyone has any experience with SET ASIDE application before?

NOTE: application needs to be made before deadline expiry, rejection chances are there

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PNGMK
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 28 Jul 2020 10:04 pm

You could pass the order to a debt enforcement agent. They can act in your absence to collect.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

sndy
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Re: Counter claim by Landlord and Agent

Post by sndy » Wed, 29 Jul 2020 9:01 am

PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 28 Jul 2020 10:04 pm
You could pass the order to a debt enforcement agent. They can act in your absence to collect.
What do they usually charge around?

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