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Opening online store while on EP

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.
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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Opening online store while on EP

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 01 May 2020 4:56 pm

"You do not need to declare overseas income that is not taxable"
The IRAS website refers to people domiciled in Singapore but working in a foreign country (like Indonesia like I did for 12 years). I lived in Singapore but I working in another country. I didn't perform any work in Singapore at all, but my cheques were deposited into my Singapore Bank accounts. However, I was not liable to Singapore for the taxes as I performed no work here. This is the same for Citizens/PR/WorkPass holders. It is NOT like the US where you are taxed on your world wide income regardless of where you earned it. That is one of the reasons for the EARNED Income Abroad Exclusion and the Housing allowance and tax credits so you don't get completely screwed by the US government (But still get done pretty badly considering you didn't live there).

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Re: Opening online store while on EP

Post by Myasis Dragon » Fri, 01 May 2020 10:02 pm

MariaT wrote:
Fri, 01 May 2020 1:11 pm

I just checked the IRAS website:
"BACK TO TOP
Overseas Income
Generally, overseas income received in Singapore on or after 1 Jan 2004 is not taxable. These include overseas income paid into a Singapore bank account.

You do not need to declare overseas income that is not taxable"
You, like many others have misinterpreted this part of the IRAS website and code.

"Overseas income" means income that you earn while you are tax resident in another country. For example, you are a Singaporean and your company transfers you to Kuala Lumpur for a year. The money you earn is taxable in Malaysia since you are resident in Kuala Lumpur. "Not taxable" means that tax has been paid in your country of residence.

This clause simply says that this income is not taxable in Singapore. It's the exact reverse of what I told you... if you are tax resident in another country, you pay taxes in that country and your income is not taxable in Singapore. Just like when you pay your taxes in Singapore on your income, because you are tax resident in Singapore, it's not generally taxable anywhere else.

Look, I have lived in Singapore under an EP (Entrepass) and PR. I have formed companies in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Hong Kong, and a special taxation entity in Australia. I have hired permanent employees and contractors in Thailand, South Korea, Singapore, Australia, and Malaysia. I am very familiar with the operation of tax law, residency, and work permits.

You seem to be hunting for any shred of evidence that will supposedly prove up your position. I have already told you that you can setup whatever you want as you have suggested, and you might not run into issues. But, until you get actual clearance from MoM for your plans, you put your EP at risk, or at the very least, they will give you an opportunity to shutdown your part time business before they bring the hammer down.

PS: I am the guy that has contacted IRAS and MoM on several occasions to get clarification on work permits and taxes payable. I know that what I have written is correct, your interpretations to the contrary notwithstanding. Your reference to unknown sources that "One guy here researched whether he can do CPS Marketing for the foreign clients, and he confirmed it with MOM. This was his response: MoM has confirmed that it is ok to do CPA Marketing especially if the Sales are made out of Singapore." Where is the reference?

For example: Did the guy give a true an accurate picture of his employment status (EP)? The word "especially" is a special trigger that this baloney.

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Re: Opening online store while on EP

Post by MariaT » Sat, 02 May 2020 12:21 pm

Myasis Dragon wrote:
Fri, 01 May 2020 10:02 pm
MariaT wrote:
Fri, 01 May 2020 1:11 pm

I just checked the IRAS website:
"BACK TO TOP
Overseas Income
Generally, overseas income received in Singapore on or after 1 Jan 2004 is not taxable. These include overseas income paid into a Singapore bank account.

You do not need to declare overseas income that is not taxable"
You, like many others have misinterpreted this part of the IRAS website and code.

"Overseas income" means income that you earn while you are tax resident in another country. For example, you are a Singaporean and your company transfers you to Kuala Lumpur for a year. The money you earn is taxable in Malaysia since you are resident in Kuala Lumpur. "Not taxable" means that tax has been paid in your country of residence.

This clause simply says that this income is not taxable in Singapore. It's the exact reverse of what I told you... if you are tax resident in another country, you pay taxes in that country and your income is not taxable in Singapore. Just like when you pay your taxes in Singapore on your income, because you are tax resident in Singapore, it's not generally taxable anywhere else.

Look, I have lived in Singapore under an EP (Entrepass) and PR. I have formed companies in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Hong Kong, and a special taxation entity in Australia. I have hired permanent employees and contractors in Thailand, South Korea, Singapore, Australia, and Malaysia. I am very familiar with the operation of tax law, residency, and work permits.

You seem to be hunting for any shred of evidence that will supposedly prove up your position. I have already told you that you can setup whatever you want as you have suggested, and you might not run into issues. But, until you get actual clearance from MoM for your plans, you put your EP at risk, or at the very least, they will give you an opportunity to shutdown your part time business before they bring the hammer down.

PS: I am the guy that has contacted IRAS and MoM on several occasions to get clarification on work permits and taxes payable. I know that what I have written is correct, your interpretations to the contrary notwithstanding. Your reference to unknown sources that "One guy here researched whether he can do CPS Marketing for the foreign clients, and he confirmed it with MOM. This was his response: MoM has confirmed that it is ok to do CPA Marketing especially if the Sales are made out of Singapore." Where is the reference?

For example: Did the guy give a true an accurate picture of his employment status (EP)? The word "especially" is a special trigger that this baloney.
Hi Myasis!

Thanks again for your response. I'm just trying to see the whole picture and gather as much info as possible. And, I do really value an input from such an experienced person like you.

Regarding your question on CPA Marketing and the person who asked it. Here you go, here is a thread:
viewtopic.php?t=110315

I went through all answers, and again the picture tends to be grey rather than black and white.

You mentioned in your earlier answer the following:
"I will repeat it again. While resident in Singapore, you can work for any company in the world that has no presence in Singapore and that provides no goods or services to Singapore and you do not need to get a work permit to work for that company. You could form your own company as well, in Malaysia for example, and work for it, so long as the no presence rule in Singapore is adhered to.

There have been lots of posts over the years by people on dependent passes that have done exactly this. A trailing spouse comes over from the USA and continues to work as a remote accountant for the company that she worked for in the USA. No problem."

Could you please explain me how is it different from my case? You write that many trailing spouses have done that (my friends are exactly the case). Is it because they are on DP? I just get totally contradicting messages in your posts and remain totally confused what is ok to do and what is not.

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Re: Opening online store while on EP

Post by x9200 » Sat, 02 May 2020 12:44 pm

MariaT wrote:
Sat, 02 May 2020 12:21 pm
Regarding your question on CPA Marketing and the person who asked it. Here you go, here is a thread:
viewtopic.php?t=110315
Don't see anything about MoM saying it would be ok not to pay taxes in Singapore for this type of the income.

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Opening online store while on EP

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 02 May 2020 1:51 pm

For the record, MOM only gives answer that pertain to the rules of the Ministry of Manpower. MOM does not dispense rulings on the taxability of earning. Only the IRAS does that. Often times it seems that they are at odds with each other, but that is because the reader tries to join them together. They are distinct and separate issues.

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Re: Opening online store while on EP

Post by Myasis Dragon » Sun, 03 May 2020 6:52 am

MariaT wrote:
Sat, 02 May 2020 12:21 pm
Could you please explain me how is it different from my case? You write that many trailing spouses have done that (my friends are exactly the case). Is it because they are on DP? I just get totally contradicting messages in your posts and remain totally confused what is ok to do and what is not.
You get "totally contradicting messages" in my posts? I'm amazed.

Let's simplify this. The law is: If you have been issued a work pass in Singapore, like your EP, you cannot work for another company because your EP is issued for only one company. Period, end.

If you are on DP, you are not working, therefore, you do not have a work permit issued, you have only a residency permit that specifically does not permit you to work.

If you want to work for a company that is registered in Singapore or does business in Singapore, you must have a work pass to work for that company if you are not a Singapore citizen or PR. The reason is simple: MoM wants to make sure that you are not taking a job away from a citizen or PR.

If you are on a DP, and you want to work for a foreign company that has no presence in Singapore, then MoM does not require a work pass because you are not potentially displacing any Singapore citizen or PR because the job is not in Singapore.

The same holds true if you are on EP... you don't need a work permit to work for the foreign company because you are not potentially displacing a citizen or PR.

But, you are still violating the rules of your EP. The rules don't say, "you cannot work for another company unless it is a foreign company,", the rules say, "You cannot work for another company." Period. End.

Therefore, the only way to know if MoM will permit you to do what you want to do is write them via email, and get permission in writing that what you want to do is OK.

You must remember that work passes of all types, including your EP, are not issued for your convenience, they are issued because MoM thinks it is of benefit to Singapore. The instant they don't see the benefit, you are gone.

I am done.

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