Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:15 pm

smooth5185 wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:09 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:01 pm
OP - can your rescind your resignation? If so, then do do. Then resign.
I already quit the company. My last day was the 21st Feb.
You did not work out your notice period? How long was your notice supposed to be?
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:19 pm

It might be a get out of jail card or hail mary. This in part is why we are starting to see the rise of Boomerang employees. There is also another hidden trend of employees NOT resigning even when they have moved to a new job - they just ghost until get called out and then resign - in part that has been driven by crappy employers issuing offer letters and then rescinding them.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by smooth5185 » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:27 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:10 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:01 pm
OP - can your rescind your resignation? If so, then do do. Then resign.
:-k Would that work? The employer doesn't have to agree to allow him to retract as it was willingly tendered and willing accepted. Has to be agreeable to both sides. Knowing what kind of employee they are dealing with, I can't see the employer agreeing to it. Not being facetious here, but curious.
Have left already, that would not work :(
Thanks

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by smooth5185 » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 1:30 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:15 pm
smooth5185 wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:09 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:01 pm
OP - can your rescind your resignation? If so, then do do. Then resign.
I already quit the company. My last day was the 21st Feb.
You did not work out your notice period? How long was your notice supposed to be?
My notice period was 1 month

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by smooth5185 » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 1:34 pm

Do you guys know some good solicitors? It seems I will need one...
This is so disappointing after 10 years of hard work in a company... I was not thinking it was even possible that they would not pay my bonus... :(
Thanks

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 3:48 pm

They did pay their bonus. They did their part. You appear not to have done your part. The Law Society of Singapore can recommend lawyers for particular areas of law. No one here AFAIK is a lawyer much less a gentleman.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 3:59 pm

smooth5185 wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 1:30 pm
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:15 pm
smooth5185 wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:09 pm

I already quit the company. My last day was the 21st Feb.
You did not work out your notice period? How long was your notice supposed to be?
My notice period was 1 month
You still did not answer my question. Did you work out your notice or did you walk off the job by quitting without fulfilling all your notice period?
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by smooth5185 » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 5:37 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 3:59 pm
smooth5185 wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 1:30 pm
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:15 pm


You did not work out your notice period? How long was your notice supposed to be?
My notice period was 1 month
You still did not answer my question. Did you work out your notice or did you walk off the job by quitting without fulfilling all your notice period?
Sorry didn't get your question. Yes I did work out my notice. I worked very hard the last month to deliver all my projects and do a smooth handover.

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 5:50 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 11:53 am
bgd wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 11:45 am
This has come up where I work. What happens if an employee resigns after bonus declaration but before receipt? The advice was why risk it, wait until it's in your account and then resign.

And it does seem that the employer specifically allows for such a scenario here

bonus will be paid to only employees that are regularly employed on the bonus payday and that employees must not be on notice or garden leave to be entitled to a bonus payment on the bonus payday.
OP did get the money but it seems he was on notice at the time.
smooth5185,

Based on my review just now of the entire thread, I am afraid that even though you did work through till the end of your notice period, the facts, as you have laid them out, precludes any misunderstanding of their intent at the time the clause about being on notice or garden leave was made. Given this, I do believe you are tilting at windmills. You jumped the gun when you turned in your notice after the bonus was declared and not after the bonus paydate. That is going to be the knife that does you in in the court room as well. It's not a technicality as it stated up front long before you resigned. I'm afraid you might have to bit the bullet and return the funds or do a runner and forget ever returning to Singapore (depending on the size of the bonus and how it's non-return will be handled by the court which, if high enough, the employer will surely go after. (I reckon if it's over 5 digits they will go after it for one of two reasons, to get the money back or to prove a point for the rest of their employees). My former boss was like that.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by smooth5185 » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 5:58 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 3:48 pm
They did pay their bonus. They did their part. You appear not to have done your part. The Law Society of Singapore can recommend lawyers for particular areas of law. No one here AFAIK is a lawyer much less a gentleman.
Sorry, I have not done my part?

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 10 Mar 2020 6:07 pm

Correct. You did not wait until after the bonus paydate to resign. By jumping the gun, but after the company ran the payroll, you are in receipt of funds that do not, according the the contract and supported by the November email notice, legally, belong to you. You played your hand too early and have gotten caught. I suspect you are now left with the two choices I mentioned.
smooth5185 wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 5:58 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 10 Mar 2020 3:48 pm
They did pay their bonus. They did their part. You appear not to have done your part. The Law Society of Singapore can recommend lawyers for particular areas of law. No one here AFAIK is a lawyer much less a gentleman.
Sorry, I have not done my part?
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by smooth5185 » Wed, 11 Mar 2020 11:17 am

Also please also note that our company (“Company A”) were acquired by another company (“Company B”) in 2019 and I signed a Transfer letter in Nov 2019. Would that change something in the case?

This transfer letter in November 2019 is to confirm that my current employment with my previous company (“Company A”) will be transferred to the new company “Company B” with effect from 1st Jan 2020.
In the transfer letter it also says that “Notwithstanding the transfer of your employment from the 1st Jan 2020, the decisions relating to the determination of any bonus and/or salary increment as part of the 2019 year end process for the period from 1 January 2019 to 31 December 2019 will be managed by my previous company “Company A” and in accordance with “Company A” compensation methodology, i.e. for 2019 there will be no change to the current practice that applies to you. Any bonus and/or salary increment resulting from such decisions will be effected through “Company B” payroll."

"For 2021 and onwards, the year-end process will be managed by “Company B” and in accordance with “Company B” approach."

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 11 Mar 2020 11:43 am

Again, their lawyers appear to have thought of everything.

Curious, Did you work for this company in a different country as well? I ask because you state you signed your contract in Nov 2018 and joined the company in Singapore in Jan 2019. But you also say "This is so disappointing after 10 years of hard work in a company..."
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by smooth5185 » Wed, 11 Mar 2020 4:39 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Wed, 11 Mar 2020 11:43 am
Again, their lawyers appear to have thought of everything.

Curious, Did you work for this company in a different country as well? I ask because you state you signed your contract in Nov 2018 and joined the company in Singapore in Jan 2019. But you also say "This is so disappointing after 10 years of hard work in a company..."
Yes I worked with them in three different regions... Europe, Australia and Singapore.

This was really not an easy decision to leave as I like the company but I got a great opportunity and when I resigned I was not thinking at all about all those bonus etc... I was not imagining they would request a repayment... certainly because the new company, Company B, is less humane...

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Re: Help my previous employer asking me to repay my annual bonus

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 11 Mar 2020 6:52 pm

I would, if there was a way to find out, be willing to bet somebody else jumped immediately after getting their bonus was declared and ticked 'em off thus hiring employment lawyers to draft up the new company policies to either prevent it from happening again or giving themselves redress capabilities. You just happened to be the case that proved their point. And to ensure that the rest of the company gets the message, I could easily see, as I mentioned in an earlier post, them taking it to the limit to ensure the message gets across to all employees. It sucks, but there it is.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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