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PR approval chance in 2020

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: PR approval chance in 2020

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:19 pm

PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Sun, 09 Aug 2020 1:27 pm
Hello everyone,

Having read the PR approval chance threads for 2019 and 2020, I guess my chances are not high.

My profile:

Nationality: Russian
Ethnicity: Caucasian
Religion: Christianity
Pass: EP
Age: 29
In SG: since Jan 2019
Salary: ~100k per year
Education: Bachelor (Engineer, 2007 - 2012), MSc in Information Technology (2013 - 2015), both in Moscow, Russia.
Occupation: Software engineer at a well-known SG-based company.
Family status: married an EP holder (Indian national) at RoM in July 2020.

My wife's profile:

Nationality/Ethnicity: Indian
Religion: Christianity
Pass: EP
Age: 33
In SG: since May 2018
Salary: ~125k per year
Education: Bachelor (India)
Occupation: non-tech job at the same SG-based company
Family status: married :D

A little more about us:

We both started investing in local companies in late 2019 (AIA, StashAway, etc.). Not much, less than 1k per month from each of us. Somebody told us it would show the Gov of Singapore we planned to stay here for long. Besides we purchased medical insurance plans for the case of serious injury or hospitalisation. It's for us to be calm and again to show the Gov we wouldn't need to fundraise if anything serious (God forbid) happened.

Investing in Companies doesn't show any investment into the country at all. It is only investing to make money for yourselves. Shares are portable. Everybody should purchase good medical insurance if they don't have sufficient company paid insurance.

She applied in Nov 2019 and got rejected in May 2020.
I also applied in March 2020 and got rejected in mid-July. My rejection letter has quite a general reason:
All SPR applications are assessed holistically under the prevailing criteria, including economic contribution, education qualifications and integration with Singapore society among other things.
    I wonder if there's anything meaningful behind this.

    The most meaning full takeaway that would be applicable to you is integration with Singapore society potentially (It's hard for most Westerners to assimilate easily even though they try, and most Indian nationals refuse to even try).
    sundaymorningstaple wrote:
    Fri, 05 Jun 2020 9:50 pm
    Generally, it is recommended two years between applications. Unless you have a major change (even then I'd recommend a 12 month wait) e.g., massive increase of salary, additional certification/degree/patent position. But, if basically no real change, then in all probability, just like research, same data in, same results out. Then wait 2 years before reapplying is recommended.

    I also came across this, and I wonder what's the point in waiting for 2 years after being rejected? If the probability of approval grows from 0.1% to 1% after 2 years, there's no point in waiting. I'd rather apply every time after paying my income tax. At least I'd feel like I'm doing something, not just waiting.

    What applying annually does is tell ICA you are desperate. Nothing more. If you are fearful of losing your position and are desperately trying to gain PR so as not to have to leave, and Singapore with the highest local unemployment it's seen in a decade, why on earth would ICA give MORE people PR to add to the drag on the economy with more residents? Even during good times ICA usually bounces applications that were initially sent before having their first EP renewal and sending annually only enforces the perception that you are worried and want the government to give you a free pass. Their citizens have to come first before giving others residency.

    Summary.

    I understand that I'm under the "Other races" category, and we have less than 1000 PRs (less than 5% out of approximately 30k PRs approved annually) and God only knows how many applicants every year. And this is in normal times. Given COVID-19, unemployment among the locals, I realise that my chances are a little greater than zero. However, I'd like to ask you for any advice. I cannot change my race to Chinese/Malay. I cannot marry a citizen of Singapore. And I am not a millionaire, so I can't get in as an investor.

    What we can change is:

    - Annual income from around 100k to at least 150 or 200 for each of us. Will only help a bit as long as in conjunction with something else.
    - EP to PAP. (PEP but no guarantees of getting that either)
    - Somebody told me getting a job at one of the FANG companies could increase my approval chances. But I'm not sure because those companies are American, and employees can be transferred to non-SG based offices (relatively) easily. Also, I wouldn't change my job now, in the uncertain economic situation. I'd rather stick to what I have and be happy with that.
    - Open a joint savings account in a local bank (OCBC, UOB, etc.) to show the Gov we have enough money to support ourselves (not sure this item will help us increase our chances). (Null benefit)
    - Stay longer, apply every time after paying taxes and hope for a miracle happen one day. (See my opinion above on applying annually)
    - Learn Chinese (I had this thought some time ago. Not for PR. I just wonder if I'll be able to memorise Chinese characters use the tones correctly. But if it counts as integration, of course, I will use it in my future applications). (Null benefit in the short term)

    Conclusion:

    We both love Singapore and want to make it our permanent home. Being on an EP feels very insecure (You lose your job. You leave the country). And COVID-19 made things more serious.

    Of course, moving to an English-speaking country with an easier path to permanent residence and citizenship is an option. Once they re-open their borders. But this is plan B. Ideally, we would love to stay here.

    Thanks!
    My remarks are a bit harsh, I warrant that, but I've always been known to call a spade a spade and I love it when I'm wrong. But my above thoughts are what they are. At the end of the day, you buys your ticket and takes your chances. I wish you luck. (NB: it took me 11 years to get PR (I've been a PR over a quarter of a century now though I've been married to a local for 37 years next month and have several SGC grandchildren now.) As a US citizen I never applied for SGC.

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:45 pm

    sundaymorningstaple wrote:
    Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:19 pm
    - Annual income from around 100k to at least 150 or 200 for each of us. Will only help a bit as long as in conjunction with something else.
    Thanks.
    Something else. Like what?
    Investing in Companies doesn't show any investment into the country at all.
    What is investment into the country then?
    The most meaning full takeaway that would be applicable to you is integration with Singapore society potentially
    What can I do to show ICA my integration efforts?

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 09 Aug 2020 3:34 pm

    PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
    Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:45 pm
    sundaymorningstaple wrote:
    Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:19 pm
    - Annual income from around 100k to at least 150 or 200 for each of us. Will only help a bit as long as in conjunction with something else.
    Thanks.
    Something else. Like what?
    Investing in Companies doesn't show any investment into the country at all.
    What is investment into the country then? Creating wealth for the Country. Not wealth for shareholders. Creating business opportunities to employ Singaporeans, etc.
    The most meaning full takeaway that would be applicable to you is integration with Singapore society potentially
    What can I do to show ICA my integration efforts?
    There is no playbook. ICA deliberately holds their card very closely to their collective chests. This prevents people from sending in tailor-made applications. We only know that they used weighted spreads that are also weighted based on ethnicity, nationality, the potential to integrate, the potential Same thing with buying properties. Only is a means of creating profit for oneself but doesn't do anything as an asset to the country vrs here to make money for yourself only (The property developer is the one who created the asset, not the buyer of said finished product. Paying Income taxes is NOT contributing to the country but just the fees for allowing your to earn money for yourself. Contributions to charities is been abused so often for so long that it's a joke any more. Those from the subcontinent abused this one beyond belief and as soon as they get PR the charity doesn't ever see them again. So it's a waste of time. All their point spreads have plenty of variables and can change depending on what another variable is. There is no right or wrong, only what is. They deliberately make it opaque due to the limited size of the country. They also change the weightage depending on what they are trying to accomplish at any given time.

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by PNGMK » Sun, 09 Aug 2020 5:51 pm

    PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
    Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:45 pm
    sundaymorningstaple wrote:
    Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:19 pm
    - Annual income from around 100k to at least 150 or 200 for each of us. Will only help a bit as long as in conjunction with something else.
    Thanks.
    Something else. Like what?
    Investing in Companies doesn't show any investment into the country at all.
    What is investment into the country then?
    The most meaning full takeaway that would be applicable to you is integration with Singapore society potentially
    What can I do to show ICA my integration efforts?
    Integrate into local society as best you can and have some children and be in jobs that won't disappear. Not much else can be done. I don't know how ICA measure integration but there are some examples around in press where the ST praise foreigners for integrating. Read up on those.
    I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
    You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
    You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
    Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
    You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
    You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Sun, 09 Aug 2020 10:42 pm

    sundaymorningstaple wrote:
    Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:19 pm
    - Learn Chinese (I had this thought some time ago. Not for PR. I just wonder if I'll be able to memorise Chinese characters use the tones correctly. But if it counts as integration, of course, I will use it in my future applications). (Null benefit in the short term)
    I wonder. Why do you think that learning one of the country's official languages is not an integration effort? :)

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 10 Aug 2020 2:22 am

    You obviously do speak the official language of Government in Singapore. English. I've integrated just fine, been here 39 years and still do not speak any other language but English and a smattering of Bahasa because I worked in Indonesia for 12 years in the 80's & 90's. In fact, unless you are planning on doing business with the PRC there is no real reason to learn Mandarin here at all.

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:28 pm

    PNGMK wrote:
    Sun, 09 Aug 2020 5:51 pm
    Integrate into local society as best you can and have some children and be in jobs that won't disappear. Not much else can be done. I don't know how ICA measure integration but there are some examples around in press where the ST praise foreigners for integrating. Read up on those.
    Hello and thank for your reply.
    Could you please give me a few ST links you're referring to? I googled and what I found so far was about community work, local associations, volunteering.

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:30 pm

    sundaymorningstaple wrote:
    Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:19 pm
    What is investment into the country then? Creating wealth for the Country. Not wealth for shareholders. Creating business opportunities to employ Singaporeans, etc.
    Thanks. I was surprised when I read that an EP holder could start a business in SG.
    Now I need ideas :D

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by AfterLife » Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38 pm

    PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
    Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:45 pm

    What is investment into the country then?
    lol, you are serioulsy trying to assess you chances ans taking about investing after 1 year of staying in Spore? I know the truth is harsh, but this is hilarious.

    You can talk about investment/commitment after spending 5+ years at least. Before that it's pointless to apply for SPR, it's a waste of $100. You are not a preferred nationality, your spouse has probably the worst nationality for PR application so chances are inexistant unless you manage to spent 5-10 years here. Your education/position is nothing of advantage here, same goes for your spouse.

    I'd also advise not to try circumvent ICA rules and open dummy company or something like that. Don't think you're more clever than ICA.

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by the observer » Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:53 pm

    PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
    Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:30 pm
    sundaymorningstaple wrote:
    Sun, 09 Aug 2020 2:19 pm
    What is investment into the country then? Creating wealth for the Country. Not wealth for shareholders. Creating business opportunities to employ Singaporeans, etc.
    Thanks. I was surprised when I read that an EP holder could start a business in SG.
    Now I need ideas :D
    Lol. You start out with noble intentions of hiring citizens.
    But once you deviate and start hiring foreigners due to a multitude of factors, you're likely to make your case worse off, isn't it?

    So. thread with caution.

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Mon, 10 Aug 2020 1:40 pm

    AfterLife wrote:
    Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38 pm
    I'd also advise not to try circumvent ICA rules and open dummy company or something like that.
    Did I say I would open a dummy company?
    If I open a company, it will be something this country and people need, OK?
    I'm not the kind of person who would deceive people or a gov agency.

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Mon, 10 Aug 2020 1:47 pm

    AfterLife wrote:
    Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38 pm
    Your education/position is nothing of advantage here, same goes for your spouse.
    What can I do to improve this?
    Master's in SG?

    What if my wife goes back to school and earns a Master's here?
    Will it improve our chances?

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 10 Aug 2020 1:55 pm

    Doubtful unless she is a rocket scientist or brain surgeon.

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    Re: PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 10 Aug 2020 2:14 pm

    PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
    Mon, 10 Aug 2020 1:47 pm
    AfterLife wrote:
    Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:38 pm
    Your education/position is nothing of advantage here, same goes for your spouse.
    What can I do to improve this?
    Master's in SG?

    What if my wife goes back to school and earns a Master's here?
    Will it improve our chances?
    Do Master's to get PR?

    Not trying to be demotivate you or saying something negative, what if she does master's hoping that it will improve your PR application chance and if it really didnt help?

    Also, if you are the main applicant atleast 80% of the assessment is based on you and not your spouse?

    I would recommend not even to think about applying for atleast 5 years.

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    PR approval chance in 2020

    Post by jamie9vardy » Mon, 10 Aug 2020 2:18 pm

    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... r-eurasian

    Image
    Image

    Old data from 10 years ago. Not sure much the composition has changed.

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