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DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

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SGSing
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DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by SGSing » Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:30 pm

Be careful with your DBS credit card!! $27,000 stolen!!

Hi everyone. Just wanted to post a word of warning in relation to DBS. I know a lot of expats in Singapore bank with them and they are generally pretty good. But be careful if your card is stolen. I recently had $27,000 taken off my card which I was not aware of and DBS are doing nothing.

$27K was taken in four bizarre amounts over a five minute period while my card had been taken to pay for a bill. As I was overseas without roaming I did not get any texts and only realised when i checked my statement a few days later. DBS maintain this IS NOT suspicious activity on the account and maintain the SMS's are adequate despite it being 8 times my highest ever monthly spend.....in five minutes, in another country. Yeah...this is really normal. They told me to report it to police which I did by spending money to fly back to where this occurred but they have totally ignored that.

If you have a DBS card with a large limit, consider lowering it as DBS have basically said that they would have allowed this activity to go up to the limit, despite their website saying they have strong fraud controls in place. And if you are traveling which many of us do, make sure you are paying for roaming or ask DBS to contact you another way. No one at DBS is monitoring multiple strange transactions.

I take responsibility for my part. I should not have let the card out of my sight. But I wanted to give a warning to everyone as DBS have been really unhelpful and put up a brick wall from the moment i reported it. Totally unwilling to assist or even enter a dialogue in relation to it. Their attitude has really surprised me and im currently considering legal action and will be switching banks. The outward face of DBS is all very welcoming but when you really need some help their service and lack of empathy is appalling.

So please be careful everyone! Dont be an idiot like me and find your pockets $27K lighter.....

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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by bro75 » Sat, 14 Dec 2019 1:22 pm

Can I ask which country did this happen?

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PNGMK
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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by PNGMK » Sun, 15 Dec 2019 10:41 pm

This is very unfortunate. I too am very concerned about CC fraud (and debit / ATM card fraud). How did it happen? Was your card skimmed or used while out of sight? Was this at a hotel? The one time I've had over charges recently was in a hotel in Jakarta. Hotels are almost the only place now my card leaves my hand I and I really really don't like handing it over. Better hotels in Australia pass you the terminal now rather than demanding the card. In Australia in general you never hand over your card now and I think this is an excellent habit.

I don't banks with DBS but I feel it could have happened with any bank here. I'm far less worried about online fraud (Maybank and Amex which I use require 2FA which seems pretty good) that I am actual card skimming or extra charges put on when it's out of sight.
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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by bgd » Mon, 16 Dec 2019 3:03 am

Check out YouTrip. It's a Sg based card aimed at travelers which you top up via a phone app using CC or DC. In the OP's scenario loss is limited to the value on the card. All transactions appear instantly on an App so you see what you are spending when you spend it. Top up takes seconds so you can keep the stored value on the card low.

I heard about it from a pilot friend, air crew are big users. The only limitation I've found so far is I can't set it up as my Grab card. All my incidental spending is now via YouTrip and my CC is used just for top up or online purchases. And an added bonus, it can be used as an SMRT card.

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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 16 Dec 2019 8:21 am

BGD - it sounds like another thing to manage which is hard for time pressed folks.... but ok thanks. I think I would use the Transferwise debit card instead (similar features).
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by bgd » Mon, 16 Dec 2019 12:13 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 16 Dec 2019 8:21 am
BGD - it sounds like another thing to manage which is hard for time pressed folks.... but ok thanks. I think I would use the Transferwise debit card instead (similar features).
My thoughts when I was first told about it, however it comes with a convenient app which makes management a breeze. It quickly became my main card. I'm not aware of the Tranferwise card but I'm sure there are similar products out there.

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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by x9200 » Mon, 16 Dec 2019 1:26 pm

bgd wrote:
Mon, 16 Dec 2019 3:03 am
Check out YouTrip. It's a Sg based card aimed at travelers which you top up via a phone app using CC or DC. In the OP's scenario loss is limited to the value on the card. All transactions appear instantly on an App so you see what you are spending when you spend it. Top up takes seconds so you can keep the stored value on the card low.

I heard about it from a pilot friend, air crew are big users. The only limitation I've found so far is I can't set it up as my Grab card. All my incidental spending is now via YouTrip and my CC is used just for top up or online purchases. And an added bonus, it can be used as an SMRT card.
With no data roaming the transactions could only appear if connected to wifi so not much of the difference for the OP as he mentioned he was without roaming.
As of the lost, if due diligence was performed the direct financial damage should be limited to $100.
https://www.dbs.com.sg/personal/cards/c ... tions.page
Limited to S$100 only if :
you have immediately notified us of the loss, theft or unauthorised disclosure;
you assist us in the recovery of the unauthorised charges incurred;
you furnish us with a police report accompanied by written confirmation of the loss, theft or unauthorised disclosure and any other information that we may require; and
we are satisfied that such loss, theft or unauthorised disclosure is not due to your negligence or default.
And this $100 is not some generous gesture of DBS, this is the law.
https://www.abs.org.sg/docs/library/cod ... -cards.pdf
a) Prior to notification of credit card loss to card issuers, the maximum liability forcardholders due to unauthorised charges is $100 unless the cardholder has acted fraudulently, or has been grossly negligent, or has failed to inform the card issuers as soon as reasonably practicable after becoming aware that his or her card has been lost or stolen. Card issuers will investigate and may consider waiving at their discretion the $100 liability for unauthorised charges on a case by case basis. Interest charges and late fees will not be levied during the period when investigations are being carried out

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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by SGSing » Tue, 17 Dec 2019 4:53 pm

Thanks for everyones replies. This happened in a bar in Japan. After the event I learned this is a common scam when speaking to Police. Due to the delay in the charges appearing I was not aware till back in Singapore a few days later. Its the perfect crime.

Ive also noted the DBS card conditions but they maintain that because it was an "EMV Chip transaction', ie they inserted it into the machine and that the card was handed back to me its not not 'lost or stolen'. Despite me doing everything listed in their credit card terms and conditions they dont care. I raise this with them and they ignore the points I make and come up with just another excuse. Its a joke.

They allowed 4 large transactions to go through in 4 minutes in another country and maintain this is not suspicious activity.

If you are with DBS consider changing.

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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by x9200 » Tue, 17 Dec 2019 5:22 pm


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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by PNGMK » Wed, 18 Dec 2019 8:59 am

In addition I would speak to your solicitor about this. Perhaps a strongly worded letter referencing the various acts and laws might push them. Also social media as you are doing. Japan - wow - I thought it was a safe country. Good links 9200 - one reason I still like this forum. You can always learn.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

SGSing
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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by SGSing » Sun, 12 Jan 2020 12:02 pm

@9200

Thanks for the links especially to the MAS site. Since supplying this to DBS and re stating my case they are re evauating their position.

Fingers crossed....

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Re: DBS Non Existant Fraud Controls

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Thu, 23 Jan 2020 12:40 pm

Let me guess that the bar had some girls (or boys) that distract customer focus about their credit cards. It an old classic still practiced about everywhere, including Singapore. They may have cleared the Paramount hotel in Katong, but the circular road and OT still have the same thing practiced all the time. and I"m sure we've all done the same mistake, some learn from one time, some don't. Hustlers movie talks about the same practice in US.

For the alerts when overseas, you don't really need data roaming, just the phone on can receive sms alert.

It's not just DBS, it's all the banks, would treat it the same way, and tell that you need to sort it with the bar/restaurant directly or raise a court case, etc. it sucks. I mean don't get me wrong, I sympathize with everyone who get hustled, and wish you good luck with the fight with the bank. But realistically, I'd say get over it. It's just money, nobody died, lesson learned, be more careful next time.

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