With only a degree and one year's experience?Ragavendran wrote:In the range of s$5k is good for your profile
Wow, the symptoms described above sounds like a very similar problem faced by non-chinese in Singapore or the non-malays in Malaysia.bentonfraser_4ever wrote:Speaking of degrees and experience, I have a question on behalf of a friend of a friend. Just looking for an honest opinion..
She's Singaporean, has an NUS Law bachelor's degree (LL.B.) and a Masters in Law (LL.M.) from a top North American non-Ivy with a strong reputation (not some 2nd-rate community college). She is very talented, in fact, multi-talented, extremely eloquent/excellent communications skills/speaks many languages, mature, professional (first impressions = top percentile, good head on her shoulders, don't mess with her), street smart and an efficient multi-tasker. Her CV is very impressive for someone her age (27), has held many leadership positions, 7yrs of entrepreneurship etc..
She has applied for over 135 jobs (mostly with Ministries/Stat boards) since January, and has only been called up for 2 interviews. 1 with a Ministry, and 1 with Mediacorp. Both were for jobs that were, to be honest, beneath her but she went anyway because she was desperate. The last one was a 'chat' with a boutique local Law firm, whose partner offered her offhand a non-lawyer position at $3k which was the same pay she was getting 2yrs ago in the nonlegal industry BEFORE her Masters, as a fresh grad. (she hasn't been called to the Bar yet, but this is going into very specific technical details and I don't want to bore you guys).
She feels quite depressed at the way things are going (also because other things in her life are going badly). If she went for 135 interviews and they all rejected her, at least she knows there's something wrong with HER, but how can they even assess her without any interviews? Also, she keeps saying, "Why did I bother to spend 5 years in university and spend all my savings and my parents' savings just to fight for a higher education, if I could become a secretary after my O Levels and earn MORE? Why do minorities in this country even have aspirations and ambitions?". I feel it's bizzare too, and doesn't gel with economic labour capital theories...
Looking at a few posts back, the Top 100 SG jobs thing, it seems even as a legal officer she's supposed to earn $9k??? Is this really realistic? And data administrators etc. are earning $5k. And FRESH GRAD EXPATS WITH NO EXPERIENCE are earning in excess of $7k http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic73923.html
So, in essence...
Qualifications: 2 Law degrees
Experience: 1yr Corp Comms/BD+Legal counsel, 7yrs entrepreneurship + communications freelancing
Being offered: S$3000 at a law firm (she doesn't state expected salary in her applications unless asked specifically-- and adjusts accordingly to the job level)
Fair?
Any thoughts/input from other lawyers, as I'm not in the corporate/commercial side of the legal industry as a practicing lawyer (I am an academic) so can't comment. Also, anyone in the business support/ PR/Corp Comms industry? Xie xie.
The key reasons why she is having problems finding a job is because her limited legal practice experiences. If she is looking at legal positions, law firm salaries are often based on the number of PQE you have and she has barely 1 PQE (in fact less because she was a BD + Legal Counsel). It is not clear why is her speciality but judging from her experience, I suspect she has none.bentonfraser_4ever wrote: So, in essence...
Qualifications: 2 Law degrees
Experience: 1yr Corp Comms/BD+Legal counsel, 7yrs entrepreneurship + communications freelancing
Being offered: S$3000 at a law firm (she doesn't state expected salary in her applications unless asked specifically-- and adjusts accordingly to the job level)
Really? wow, I had the impression Singapore was more meritocratic? And that this happens only in Malaysia? Well, I guess maybe you're saying times have changed.. After all, it very much feels like Singapore is a distant province of China!Lieberato wrote: Wow, the symptoms described above sounds like a very similar problem faced by non-chinese in Singapore or the non-malays in Malaysia.
Ooh, i just had lunch with her today and shared with her! Thanks for the advice on the alternatives, I will send this link to her lol.Girl_Next_Door wrote: The key reasons why she is having problems finding a job is because her limited legal practice experiences. If she is looking at legal positions, law firm salaries are often based on the number of PQE you have and she has barely 1 PQE (in fact less because she was a BD + Legal Counsel). It is not clear why is her speciality but judging from her experience, I suspect she has none.
Hence, she can only get the salary of a newly graduated lawyer if she try to join a SG law firm in Singapore. Accompanied by the fact that she is not familiar with Singapore regulations, it all added on to her disadvantages. Of course, you can say that she can read up on the law but why would a law firm offer a high salary to someone, who is not familiar with Singapore regulations and has minimum legal experience. Not forgetting the fact that she didn't pass her bar exam (another question mark). There are ample of law graduates in Singapore who are cheaper and spent years familiarizing themselves with SG regulations.
A few alternatives that she should investigate includes
1) Looking for positions in foreign law firms. However, do note that she have minimum legal experience. Don't pin high hopes in salary.
2) Looking for assistant legal counsel positions / compliance positions in a financial institution (FI). A FI is probably one of the few places who will appreciate her 2 degrees and don't mind her not passing her bar exam.
Good luck!
This is true, if you look at it logically. But from what I've noticed, the Singapore legal landscape is not It's really puzzling, the thousands of Brit/American/Aussie ('Western') lawyers here are even more of a libility because they have no knowledge of Singapore's legal system whatsoever, didn't go through it in school, are not mandated to do a conversion or even take the Singapore Bar exams(unlike when Singaporeans/foreigners go to their countries where protectionist policies/barriers to entry are EXTREMELY STRONG in industries such as Law) and yet they're allowed to practice here freely and earning high salaries. Yes, they bring their specialisation of American/Brit law, but is it wholly enough when you have trans-jurisdictional transactions, AND based in Asia? There are so very few foreign lawyers here with Singapore Bar qualifications, most are NY and England&Wales.. it's truly odd. The very few ones who actually bother eg. Prof. Jeffrey Pinsler, Bob Beckman, Barry Crown etc are those who have been here ages and actually specialise in Singapore law! I've heard my Singaporean peers lament the rest (the corporate-types) are just here to cash in on the Asian growth wave and then leave...? Anyway. Sorry for rambling. LOL. Just sayin'. From an academic's perspective, in my lonely cold ivory tower...Girl_Next_Door wrote: Hence, she can only get the salary of a newly graduated lawyer if she try to join a SG law firm in Singapore. Accompanied by the fact that she is not familiar with Singapore regulations, it all added on to her disadvantages. Of course, you can say that she can read up on the law but why would a law firm offer a high salary to someone, who is not familiar with Singapore regulations and has minimum legal experience. Not forgetting the fact that she didn't pass her bar exam (another question mark). There are ample of law graduates in Singapore who are cheaper and spent years familiarizing themselves with SG regulations.
My original understanding is, your friend has a basic law degree (country unknown) and a Masters in Law (did not pass any Bar exam, Sg or overseas). I did not state that she must pass SG Bar exam. Its the fact that she did not pass any Bar exam, with no clear speciality, accompanied by the fact that she only have less than 1 PQE that might hinder her job search. If my understanding is in error, do feel free to clarify. Please do not start putting words in my mouth.bentonfraser_4ever wrote:
This is true, if you look at it logically. But from what I've noticed, the Singapore legal landscape is not It's really puzzling, the thousands of Brit/American/Aussie ('Western') lawyers here are even more of a libility because they have no knowledge of Singapore's legal system whatsoever, didn't go through it in school, are not mandated to do a conversion or even take the Singapore Bar exams(unlike when Singaporeans/foreigners go to their countries where protectionist policies/barriers to entry are EXTREMELY STRONG in industries such as Law) and yet they're allowed to practice here freely and earning high salaries. Yes, they bring their specialisation of American/Brit law, but is it wholly enough when you have trans-jurisdictional transactions, AND based in Asia? There are so very few foreign lawyers here with Singapore Bar qualifications, most are NY and England&Wales.. it's truly odd. The very few ones who actually bother eg. Prof. Jeffrey Pinsler, Bob Beckman, Barry Crown etc are those who have been here ages and actually specialise in Singapore law! I've heard my Singaporean peers lament the rest (the corporate-types) are just here to cash in on the Asian growth wave and then leave...? Anyway. Sorry for rambling. LOL. Just sayin'. From an academic's perspective, in my lonely cold ivory tower...
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