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Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

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PNGMK
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Re: Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 10 Sep 2019 8:42 pm

Make sure your LI profile is absolutely up to date, full of the right key words, clarifies your residency status in Singapore. There are thousands of recruiters out there globally punching key words like "IT clown Singapore banking widget expert in Token3 tech" and you're not showing up in their top 25 returns and because they're lazy they don't press "next page" to find you at the 27th listing.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
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Re: Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

Post by runningaway » Tue, 10 Sep 2019 11:03 pm

Hello, DP holder here too... I am in a different field and have not lived in London (but in other parts of the UK, coming from yet another country), and I am used to putting A LOT of work in my job searches before I get anything (which is usually not what I want but at least in the right field - for example, to switch jobs once I had to do 30+ applications and about 9-10 interviews. Yes I am not very good at interviews). I do hear that IT/software types seem to basically walk into jobs any time they want... at least back in Europe.

From looking at these forums (I have read a few posts this evening), a lot seems to have to do with expectations... I came prepared to take months and months to find a job and I am deciding on plan B if I don't get anything within a year. I was surprised to be called for an interview and whichever way it goes (it hasn't happened yet) at least it shows I'm not doing things wrong as I was getting a bit paranoid about not knowing the local etiquette and perhaps doing something wrong. So it gives me strength to carry on, if I will have to. The field I am in is notoriously slow (I think some aspects are similar all over the world) so in my case I also don't expect quick turnarounds. Googling the job title for my interview made me notice that it was posted on LinkedIn 4 months ago (but I saw it on the organisation's own job page just 3 weeks ago, so I imagine it was a re-post) which makes me think it's not been filled by a local and they can now move on to considering the crazy foreigner.

When I am out and about and talk to people, they do look at me really worried when I say I have a DP... I knew it was going to be hard though the worried looks do worry me even more!

As for getting out and talking to people -as above - try Meetup? Don't know if I can put URLs, it's a website, it's for socialising but I find it very positive to meet people from all walks of life, even if it's just "for fun", as it helps me learn more about the place and I have asked for tips to either locals or people who have been here a while. Sometimes there are professional groups as well, maybe relating to a certain role or skill, so they might be more targeted than just "fun", but it all depends what's out there and what you look for, and what your interests are.
I am also looking at volunteering, and language courses (or other professional skills). These unfortunately cost money but I am determined to make the most of the freedom of not having a job, while keeping myself busy and "getting out there". I am living on my savings and of course my partner has a job here, he's not making a huge amount of money (on local contract, but obviously enough to have a DP) but in theory we could cope even without me working but I prefer to maintain my independence and keep a career going.

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Re: Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

Post by shunkwugga » Wed, 11 Sep 2019 1:54 am

I have been casually perusing opportunities on Linkedin, jobstreet, recruiters, and direct applications for about a month now. Started ramping up things recently but still have had similar results as you. One or two rejections, and a whole lot of crickets.

I have yet to have a single recruiter respond to anything I have sent them, even when its a response to them contacting me. Don't expect much and you won't be let down. I have adopted the mindset that recruiters and headhunters are just pointless timesinks and avoid as much as possible.

I think being boots on the ground is your biggest advantage, play to that. Network in person, look for social spots, but also look at meetups and associations.
And as others have said, get your Linkedin page squared away. Seriously. If you can, look at your competition and see their skill sets and how they sell themselves, compare your CV to the job postings line for line and make sure you are getting the key words that HR or a hiring manager might be looking for.

Lastly, recognize Singapore is a tough market right now for expats.
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Re: Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

Post by runningaway » Wed, 11 Sep 2019 1:07 pm

Just to add about my experience, I don't use recruiters as I am not used to it and I don't know if I should try, but the ones I looked at don't seem to cater very much for my area. There was a job I saw on jobstreet, that seemed amazing but it was posted by a recruiter, the actual workplace was undisclosed so it was kind of hard to write the application with a lot of unknowns.
A couple of weeks later, I found that same job on the website of the actual workplace... I sent the same application (I looked at it but didn't feel it needed huge changes after all - my guesses about how to pitch it were right) directly this time, I don't know if that made me look a bit stupid, or desperate, or really really keen (which I was!). I have not heard back and that's probably the one I was most interested in, but never mind (and they could still get in touch later).

I also definitely stepped up my LinkedIn game. I don't think it's as fundamental in my field and I have always felt uncomfortable about how visible you make yourself (which I know is the whole point) but it had never mattered too much before. It seemed to be a good idea here - if someone searches me at least they can find the answers to all their questions about me, sort of.

In social settings, people have told me that employers are not keen on DPs because they are likely to be here temporarily - so then they have to recruit again - and that if the partner/EP holder loses the job or moves jobs than the DP has to leave as well, even if employed. So I was told. (I wonder can a DP turn into an EP? Like if my husband's job is temporary but I get a permanent one, can I become the EP and he the DP, once is contract is over? Just wondering!)

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Re: Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 11 Sep 2019 3:37 pm

runningaway, your last paragraph above is, in fact, the biggest drawback to the LoC. This isn't a problem if it's due to the spouse being a SGC or PR, but you are absolutely correct when it comes to DP's on LoC permits. If the sponsor (the spouse with the EP) loses their job, it's a double whammy as both lose their jobs and yeah, the employer of the LoC holder will have to try to apply for a EP if possible. If the position is one that takes some training in then a lot of employer are not willing to gamble on spending the time/money to get the LoC holder up to speed when the sponsor is at the whims of another employer/MOM. Yes, if you are on an LoC, your employer can apply for an EP or S pass and if you get lucky, maybe get it changed. That way, in theory, you both will not lose your income at the same time. But it's not automatic nor guaranteed because the criteria for the LoC is not near as stringent as it is for the full S/EP holder applying for the same position.

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Re: Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

Post by londonsg » Wed, 11 Sep 2019 4:04 pm

Just to give a little update on how I've changed my strategy (it will probably change again next week ;-)). I'm still applying to jobs I see on linkedin, jobstreet etc. however I'm now very actively finding as many of the agencies that deal with IT jobs, finding the relevant recruiters and connecting and contacting them directly (you can do nearly all this through linkedin). Basically trying to get myself in front of recruiters and tell them who I am and what I'm looking for - so when something relevant comes up they will hopefully think of me. I've also found the recruiters who are expats themselves to be the most useful (unfortunately, for what ever reason, the local recruiters are often very quiet/unresponsive).

To be honest this is what I would do in London anyway. Back in the UK I honestly can't remember the last time I filled in some sort of application form to apply for a job. I've found communicating directly to the agent/recruiter always more promising. We will see........

BTW I work as a software developer and historically the IT industry has often/usually hired people via recruiters, but I understand there are some industries out there that don't hire/operate that way. So not saying everyone should do this :-).

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Re: Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

Post by runningaway » Thu, 12 Sep 2019 3:11 pm

I did forget to mention what someone else told me, in fact, about going straight to the HR managers and ask for a chat/coffee. Apparently it's the way to do it here (londonsg, your new strategy might bring you the results you need!) but I for one have not implemented it in the couple of weeks after I've had this conversation. I simply don't know how to find the right contacts as they are rarely obvious (for the interview process I am currently undergoing, there is one person communicating with me and even after meeting them I have no idea what their role actually is... I suppose something HR related or generic office manager...). Websites are usually unclear and LinkedIn use can be sporadic. Of course I could try and put more effort in that but I also don't really know how I would present myself, unless I can see they have a job available, in which case they'd probably ask me to go through the proper channels (or maybe that's my UK brain speaking).

sundaymorningstaple, thanks for clarifying further about LOC/EP, yes I understand it would be difficult to swap.
I have now had my interview and literally the first thing they asked was how long I am planning to be in SG for. But then as soon as I got a chance I asked how long is the job for (it said fixed-term but no other information) and it is for 2 years, which is shorter than my husband's contract so I felt a bit relieved in this matter (they said 2 years but there will probably be chances to extend so I'd be employed for as long as I am here, they said, but I was far more concerned about not being here long enough for them!).

I still don't know if I'll get the job as they want me to speak with someone else too, which is fine by me, and I think I have a chance, which is more than most of the interviews I've had in the last few years (whilst I was employed but seeking some improvements). sundaymorningstaple also made a point about training, which makes me feel positive as I would need very little training for this positition, I have loads of experience though of course I don't know the organisation and local field well, but that would be the same for someone coming from anoher industry even if local (though they'd know the local culture of course, which I am still new to).

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Re: Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 12 Sep 2019 3:32 pm

Sounds like you are on the right track though and your processes seem good. Hope it all pans out and let us know how it goes. Our readers make our archive and allows us to see trends if there are any. Good Luck.

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Re: Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

Post by r0003 » Tue, 17 Sep 2019 5:11 pm

same experience.

but i doubt may be because of your salary. currently, i feel, no IT company willing to accept us/me because of the current status/salary i am getting. nobody willing to pay much, considering there are plenty of young IT in the market nowadays. :(

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Re: Not sure why I'm getting so many job rejections

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 17 Sep 2019 5:16 pm

When it comes to LoCs you are almost never going to get the normal market rates as the Employers, if they know anything about the LoC at all, will know that they have the upper hand and if you want to work at all, you will probably have to settle for less that you want or expected. Plus you will not get any of the perks that the EP holder might give as the employer of the LoC will know that the Sponsor (EP holder) will already be getting perks. They are ruthless here.

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