LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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thom84
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LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by thom84 » Fri, 24 May 2019 9:04 pm

Hi guys,

I have been reading through the forum for a few weeks and found similar cases, but nothing that matches our situation. Therefore I am seeking advice and hope someone can share experiences.

I will be moving to Singapore from Germany in June and start a new job. My company will organise the Employment Pass for me. My company will also take care of the Dependant's Pass for my daughter. Her mother and I are not married, that's why I call her my girlfriend. We are all citizens of Germany and hold German passports. She won't be working in Singapore and will raise our daughter, therefore she's not eligible for an own EP.

My girlfriend is not eligible for a DP, because we are not married.

I have been in touch with the MOM and was told, she is also not eligible for a LTVP because we are not able to proof a common-law marriage. However, I contacted the embassy of Germany in Singapore and they are aware of the situation but can't help. The German law does not know a thing like a common-law marriage and therefore they deny to help and 'testify' a marriage that isn't a real marriage (under German laws). However, I have contacted several lawyers and solicitors in Germany to legalize an affiditive from me, declaring our relationship. Because these guys hold their status based on German laws, they also refuse to notarize the Common-law marriage. One guy offered me to notarize my signature under the letter I have to write without notarizing the content. But I don't think that will help.

So, I understand that she will get a 30 days visit pass at the airport and then we can easily extend it online to 90 days. But I don't want to make visa runs all the time with my family.

Are there any European people on the forum with a similar situation who can share an advice how to deal with the MOM? I mean, at the end, it can't be in their interest to make a cut through a family but I can't find another way to deal with the situation. We already have an officially translated birth-certificate from our daughter with both our names on it.

Thanks for you ideas!

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by Strong Eagle » Fri, 24 May 2019 9:25 pm

After moderating this board for 15 years, I can tell you that the only solution that works is MARRIAGE in Germany.

It's got nothing to do with you, nor does the Singapore gahmen have a Puritan attitude about living together in sin.

If Singapore were to recognize some sort of de facto common law marriage without the intervention of an embassy that would verify same, there would be about 13 million young women from Vietnam and Thailand, all wanting to come to Singapore, to become the common law wives of about 13 million Singapore hard dicks all looking for a cheap girlfriend and an easy lay. It aint gonna happen.

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by thom84 » Fri, 24 May 2019 9:45 pm

Thanks for your quick response. This is what I was worrying about.

Actually, for several reasons, she will fly to Germany several times any way and we plan a total stay in Singapore of about one year.

Do you have any experiences of how the immigration officers react when you leave and come back the same day and do that more or less frequently?

Can we extend the visit pass from land border (like to JB) to 90 days as well? Or does that only apply for visit passes given on the airport?
Strong Eagle wrote:After moderating this board for 15 years, I can tell you that the only solution that works is MARRIAGE in Germany.

It's got nothing to do with you, nor does the Singapore gahmen have a Puritan attitude about living together in sin.

If Singapore were to recognize some sort of de facto common law marriage without the intervention of an embassy that would verify same, there would be about 13 million young women from Vietnam and Thailand, all wanting to come to Singapore, to become the common law wives of about 13 million Singapore hard dicks all looking for a cheap girlfriend and an easy lay. It aint gonna happen.

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 24 May 2019 10:06 pm

Do you have any experiences of how the immigration officers react when you leave and come back the same day and do that more or less frequently?

Can we extend the visit pass from land border (like to JB) to 90 days as well? Or does that only apply for visit passes given on the airport?


^ this will not work for very long.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by Strong Eagle » Sat, 25 May 2019 1:35 am

thom84 wrote:Do you have any experiences of how the immigration officers react when you leave and come back the same day and do that more or less frequently?
Here is the unofficial deal. This carries no official weight, and I take no responsibility as to what might happen to you or you spousal unit by following any of this advice. It is based entirely upon my own observations. In my comments below, I am referring to your spousal unit as she comes and goes.
  1. Since you're German you probably won't be looked at quite as closely as you travel over the border. Probably. What the authorities are definitely on the lookout for is Malaysians, Thai, and Indonesians trying to work in Singapore without having a work permit or legal residence. But, they are not averse to catching the girlfriend from Thailand trying to live with her boyfriend in Singapore.
  2. Each time you leave, your white debarkation card will be picked up and your passport will be stamped. They can tie this debarkation card to your embarkation card which they picked up when you arrived. So, if they want to look, they can see that you've been to Johor Bahru ten times in a row... not good news for you. Summary: You will want varied travel plans that make it look like you are using Singapore as your jumping off point for exploring Asia... not only "look like"... this is what you should be doing.
  3. Your address in Singapore should always be "staying with friends" if asked. Different last names, no problem... same last name, it's your brother, either way, taking the opportunity to see Asia since you have a friend living in Singapore.
  4. You get 90 days maximum, as a German, on a visit pass but the actual time limit is set by the customs officer. It could be as little as 3 days if the customs officer thinks you are fishy. But, you don't really want to stay in Singapore for 89 days, then take a trip. If you're planning on being in Singapore for a year, then 6, 7, 8, or more trips for travel is what you want to do.
  5. Your story for custom agents, should you be asked, is that you are a German using Singapore as a jumping off point to see the sights of Asia. You can lend credence to this story by having on an onward ticket to somewhere like home or Australia, and actually going to visit a few places.
  6. Quick jaunts: Batam and Bintan. Golf and resorts. Before I got my EP and PR, I went to Batam to play golf virtually every weekend, and every time I came back I got a new 90 day tourist visa, no questions asked. This was a while ago but again, as a German, you should be able to visit each of these islands for a day of golf or a weekend getaway and get a new 90 days upon your return.
  7. Longer trips: A weekend or three and four day trips to Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Hong Kong, and Siem Reap is something all sorts of tourists do. You'll almost certainly get 90 more days upon return. Just be aware that the airlines, especially in Hong Kong, may want to see your onward ticket from Singapore... they don't want to get stuck bringing you back to Hong Kong if you are refused entry.
  8. Holidays: Vietnam, South Korea, Manila... great places to see... take a week, come back, get 90 days no questions asked.

Bottom line: She's not going to find employment anyway while in Singapore, she might as well get around and see the sights. She can probably make a year in Singapore with the kind of itinerary I have suggested. But, if you try for 89 days, then a quick trip to Bangkok, then 89 more days and a quick trip to Kuala Lumpur, it might become rather obvious.

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by thom84 » Tue, 28 May 2019 8:42 pm

Thanks for the feedback and your 'recommendation'. I have another idea in mind that we will try out when we arrive in Singapore and see if that works out. If not, we will stick to your words. I will provide feedback, promised. Cheers

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by thom84 » Mon, 28 Dec 2020 8:46 pm

I would like to share an experience with the forum so folks who find this have an answer:

1. Please read the thread and the circumstances above
2. In the process, I have received an Employment Pass and my daughter the DP. My girlfriend/partner (mother of my daughter) was granted the regular tourist visa for 90 days.
2. We tried to arrange things for my Girlfriend through my employer = didn't work
3. I tried talking hard to staff and supervisor's at the Employment Pass Center (at The Riverwalk) = didn't work
4. I engaged a Singapore-based law firm that is specialised on family matters and they have set up a statutory declaration about our relationship, kids, common things shared such as an appartment back in Germany and stuff like that. They first legalised this from a 'notary public' that was rejected by MOM. MOM was requesting a legalisation by a 'Commissioner for Oaths', which the law firm organised for me without extra charges. But to my confusion, that was the same women legalising the documents as 'notary public' and later as 'Commissioner for Oaths'. Whatever, the MOM rejected everything again.

The strange thing in that process is, that I was never allowed to speak directly with someone from MOM, everything was handled by the law firm. I paid 800 S$ for the statutory declaration and the legalisation and that felt like a rip-off in the end. I have to say, they managed the process very friendly and professional and I think they are not fu**ing around with people but they always gave me the feeling 'we take care of this, no worries' which left me frustrated in the end. But I won't disclose the company name here anyway as I don't want to miscredit them.

I kind of expected this because it matches with other stories I read before (in this forum and elsewhere) but I was trying to avoid unnecessary trips to Malaysia for visa runs for my girlfriend and my daughter. I was talking very openly about this with the staff at the EP Center, they understood everything but nobody was able to do anything. The only positive thing here is that our German passports are quite powerful which easily allows troublefree visa runs but this could have been avoided... 🤷🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

So if anyone is reading this being in a similar situation: don't spend your money for lawyers but for a good trip to Thailand or another nice place around :-)

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by thom84 » Mon, 28 Dec 2020 8:49 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
Fri, 24 May 2019 9:25 pm
After moderating this board for 15 years, I can tell you that the only solution that works is MARRIAGE in Germany.
...
Can confirm that now :???: :D

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 28 Dec 2020 11:44 pm

So did you get married Thom?
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by thom84 » Mon, 28 Dec 2020 11:48 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 28 Dec 2020 11:44 pm
So did you get married Thom?
No. We planned to stay for about one year in Singapore.

She managed to stress the 90 days tourist visa well and made a few trips back to Germany or we did spend a week in Thailand. We left Singapore in March with one of the last flights out and I am happy this happened this way. Because today we would have had a big problem in Singapore: After 90 days she would have been enforced to leave Singapore and would not be allowed to enter again due to the COVID-19 regulations. This would have been a big challenge for us as a family so I am happy I could finish my project in Singapore earlier.

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by malcontent » Tue, 29 Dec 2020 1:04 am

Thanks for coming back and posting your experience thom84. Looks like the advice was right on the mark!
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: LTVP for German Girlfriend that won't work in Singapore

Post by thom84 » Tue, 29 Dec 2020 1:11 am

malcontent wrote:
Tue, 29 Dec 2020 1:04 am
Looks like the advice was right on the mark!
Yep :oops:

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