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Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

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Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby feshakov » Fri, 24 Aug 2018 12:45 am

Hello. I am a current EP holder. I graduated in Singapore and was on LTVP after graduation for about 5 months (while interviewing for a job). My French boyfriend was with me on a run-visa (90 days visa for french people on entry, he went out from Singapore 2 times for a couple of days each time, during the 5 months stay). Once I got a job offer, he was refused to enter Singapore. We filled in a form14 to request an entry for him to be able to get married and make a DP for him. But our request was rejected (of course with no explanation). Now we plan either make a declaration of marital living in a French embassy elsewhere and apply for the LTVP, either get married somewhere else and then request a DP. What do you think will work faster and better? It has been 2 months already that we are separated and we would like the situation to be resolved. Any suggestions about how we should proceed? Why has this happened to him? He has a bank account with 20 k EUR on it which he showed to the ICA to prove that he does not need to work here, but they still rejected him.

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 24 Aug 2018 7:36 am

What's your nationality? I wonder if this is more about you than him. However he pushed the limits.
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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby feshakov » Fri, 24 Aug 2018 8:05 am

PNGMK wrote:What's your nationality? I wonder if this is more about you than him. However he pushed the limits.


My nationality is French. He is also French. I just graduated from INSEAD MBA program in Singapore. My profile is fintech and I have an exec position in my actual Singaporien company. I got my EP approval in 1 week. So I don't feel that my profile is somehow suspicious for them. which limits did he push? Hé never overstayed, or worked, or broke the law here.

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 24 Aug 2018 10:48 am

feshakov wrote:which limits did he push? Hé never overstayed, or worked, or broke the law here.


Without a direct pipeline, it's only and SWAG, and your boyfriend got whacked because he stayed in Singapore for 5 months and only "went out from Singapore 2 times for a couple of days each time".

This is NOT the profile of a typical tourist. It is the profile of a typical over stayer, and rightly or wrongly, ICA has determined that his intention was to stay in Singapore. Now, he's been flagged in the system and it will be an uphill battle to convince the gahmen that you're not merely creating a marriage of convenience so that he can stay even longer.

Completely forget about trying to get some sort of common law declaration under these circumstances. A real, honest marriage will be hard enough to prove up to get a DP and get him back into the country.

The only way I see this working is that you get married in France, possess a French marriage certificate, you come back and have your company apply for his DP. Maybe that will work. I don't think he'll get in otherwise.

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby feshakov » Sat, 25 Aug 2018 11:43 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
feshakov wrote:which limits did he push? Hé never overstayed, or worked, or broke the law here.


Without a direct pipeline, it's only and SWAG, and your boyfriend got whacked because he stayed in Singapore for 5 months and only "went out from Singapore 2 times for a couple of days each time".

This is NOT the profile of a typical tourist. It is the profile of a typical over stayer, and rightly or wrongly, ICA has determined that his intention was to stay in Singapore. Now, he's been flagged in the system and it will be an uphill battle to convince the gahmen that you're not merely creating a marriage of convenience so that he can stay even longer.

Completely forget about trying to get some sort of common law declaration under these circumstances. A real, honest marriage will be hard enough to prove up to get a DP and get him back into the country.

The only way I see this working is that you get married in France, possess a French marriage certificate, you come back and have your company apply for his DP. Maybe that will work. I don't think he'll get in otherwise.



It is stated nowhere that you cannot do a running visa, while you have enough resources to live in Singapore (and he has these resources as he showed to the ICA on his bank account statement), why not to stay a couple of months more? He did not fulfill all the requirements to be eligible for long-term visit pass (as I was on LTVP myself and not yet on EP), so the running visa was a great solution for us to be together.

We would love to do an honest marriage, but he cannot enter Singapore anymore, which means we have to get married somewhere else. To go back to France it is the worst option as we need to go there twice to get married and it will be difficult to arrange with my new employer. But we found an option to make a fast marriage in Denmark or Fiji. What do you think about it?

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby PNGMK » Sat, 25 Aug 2018 1:04 pm

Any legal marriage will work. As a hint make sure the marriage cert is in English (so perhaps not Denmark). I have friends who have used a Vegas marriage cert with no issues.

I understand your frustration with the visa run issue. It's a common problem and really only publicized on forums like these.
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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby feshakov » Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:32 am

Hello, we got married last week in Denmark, our marriage certificate is in English. So my employer submitted a PD request to the MOM for my husband and the application was rejected because "the applicant has a negative record with us". My employer called the MOM to ask for the reason and what can be done in that case. The MOM responded that they see that there is a negative record but they are not able to know why. They advised doing an appeal for the request with an explanation letter from my employer why we REALLY need to bring my husband to Singapore. My employer will do it shortly. Do you have any suggestions about what exactly we need to say in that letter in addition to the fact that my employer will lose an employee if her spouse cannot come to Singapore? What else can we do so that at least the authorities try to reassess his profile on the reasons why he was prohibited? He never overstayed, the using of visa run solution is not clearly prohibited by Singapore and it is stated nowhere that you cannot come back here before XXX days have passed after your last visit. He stayed here only for 5 months in total (instead of 90 days that French people can stay without any visa) with going several times to update his visa to other Asian countries (Thailand and Indonesia) for the obvious reason to be here with me during my studies. Please, advise.

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:37 am

Hmmm, I wonder if he has done something he has not disclosed to you (and no, I'm not trying to make you worried). I wonder whether it's worth a run down to the Police HQ at Cantonment and pulling a copy of his criminal record in Singapore - the catch 22 being that I think he has to do it (https://www.police.gov.sg/e-services/ap ... -clearance)? Honestly MOM / ICA don't give a toss about your job unless it's solving a huge issue in Singapore. Also google his name to make sure he's not sharing a name with a known criminal or similar. An appeal may help as your employer suggested.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby feshakov » Tue, 11 Sep 2018 1:05 pm

PNGMK wrote:Hmmm, I wonder if he has done something he has not disclosed to you (and no, I'm not trying to make you worried). I wonder whether it's worth a run down to the Police HQ at Cantonment and pulling a copy of his criminal record in Singapore - the catch 22 being that I think he has to do it (https://www.police.gov.sg/e-services/ap ... -clearance)? Honestly MOM / ICA don't give a toss about your job unless it's solving a huge issue in Singapore. Also google his name to make sure he's not sharing a name with a known criminal or similar. An appeal may help as your employer suggested.


Thank you for your comment. No, I know for sure that he did NOT commit anything criminal in Singapore. I was almost 100% of time with him, we have a common credit card and bank account. I know in person all of his friends here. If there were something I would know about it. To be eligible to request his criminal record he needs to have a SingPass or FIN, he doesn't have one as he was staying on a tourist visa.

The government may give a toss about my job because I work for a startup company in a very "hot" sector in Singapore and my company got a grant from the government to develop their business. We are only 6 in the company and only 4 of us are full-time. So losing 25% of employees workforce for a startup which is sponsored by the government is like throwing money! At least from my point of view, I don't think that the government is THAT incompetent.

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby feshakov » Tue, 11 Sep 2018 1:07 pm

PNGMK wrote:Hmmm, I wonder if he has done something he has not disclosed to you (and no, I'm not trying to make you worried). I wonder whether it's worth a run down to the Police HQ at Cantonment and pulling a copy of his criminal record in Singapore - the catch 22 being that I think he has to do it (https://www.police.gov.sg/e-services/ap ... -clearance)? Honestly MOM / ICA don't give a toss about your job unless it's solving a huge issue in Singapore. Also google his name to make sure he's not sharing a name with a known criminal or similar. An appeal may help as your employer suggested.



And no, he is not sharing his name with any criminal.

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby bgd » Tue, 11 Sep 2018 1:56 pm

feshakov wrote:The government may give a toss about my job because I work for a startup company in a very "hot" sector in Singapore and my company got a grant from the government to develop their business. We are only 6 in the company and only 4 of us are full-time. So losing 25% of employees workforce for a startup which is sponsored by the government is like throwing money! At least from my point of view, I don't think that the government is THAT incompetent.


Good luck but don't be surprised if it doesn't go your way. We have seen plenty of examples where one govt. dept seems at odds with another, particularly around immigration. Decisions are made by civil servants following a process, if you don't fit that process it's your problem not theirs.

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby feshakov » Tue, 11 Sep 2018 3:06 pm

bgd wrote:
feshakov wrote:The government may give a toss about my job because I work for a startup company in a very "hot" sector in Singapore and my company got a grant from the government to develop their business. We are only 6 in the company and only 4 of us are full-time. So losing 25% of employees workforce for a startup which is sponsored by the government is like throwing money! At least from my point of view, I don't think that the government is THAT incompetent.


Good luck but don't be surprised if it doesn't go your way. We have seen plenty of examples where one govt. dept seems at odds with another, particularly around immigration. Decisions are made by civil servants following a process, if you don't fit that process it's your problem not theirs.



I am not trying to prove that I am very important for the Singapore Government, so they have to accept my husband here. I just explained my EP situation in a better way, and I wish to find the best way to show to the government that we want to comply with Singapore laws which we might have unintentionally broken in the past. I know for sure that the criminal record will be blanc if I request it (unless Singapore charges it's criminals without informing the criminals themselves about the charges that they are undergoing).

Anyway, any suggestions on what will be the best way to proceed in my situation?

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 11 Sep 2018 8:09 pm

Perhaps ask your local embassy for advice. They (in the old days) sometimes had a liasion / consular officer who had cultivated local contacts who would give the back story.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 11 Sep 2018 8:58 pm

Look, attitudinally speaking, you're not doing yourself any favors, as you come across loud and clear that the Singapore government really had no right to do what they did and that you all are persecuted, injured parties. That attitude, plus four dollars, will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Like it or not, your husband got himself a record as the result of his travels. The comment, "The MOM responded that they see that there is a negative record but they are not able to know why" is evidence of this. As you say, your goal is to get this record clean up, further, using your job and your marriage is not the approach that is going to work.

If MoM found a negative record, and you husband hasn't committed any other grievous error/situation/faux pas, the it's pretty clear that it is the ICA that has provided the negative report. Your goal has to be to convince ICA, not MoM, that the negative report was unwarranted.

Through calls and if necessary, showing up in person, you must find out exactly what it is that ICA finds negative. Perhaps your husband needs to do this, or an appointed attorney. Once you know what the alleged infringement is, you'll better be able to deal with it.

You will not be successful if your approach is, "he didn't mean to do it," or "that wasn't really an infringement." You must demonstrate that the travel pattern that created the problem in the first place was misinterpreted by the ICA as doing visa runs. Your husband is currently in the same box as all those folks who DO make visa runs, and they have every excuse in the book.

I agree with PNGMK about getting your embassy involved, only, I'd do it with ICA, not MoM.

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Re: Refused SG entry, how to get him back if we want to get married?

Postby feshakov » Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:36 pm

PNGMK wrote:Perhaps ask your local embassy for advice. They (in the old days) sometimes had a liasion / consular officer who had cultivated local contacts who would give the back story.


I tried to contact the French embassy, they responded that they cannot help and that we should make a request to Singapore authorities for visa entry, what we actually already did twice and each time the reason of rejection was not provided under "confidentiality" terms.

I will anyway ask them if they know any competent local lawyers as you suggested. Thank you.


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