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Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 28 May 2018 2:35 pm

For the record, your father cannot renounce his citizenship until such time as he obtain citizenship in another country. This could take 10 years to accomplish in the US at the current time and backlog there. With Trump in office it could take longer than that.

Frankly, You would be a hell of a lot safer doing NS here. Being in the US means at 18 you will have to apply with the Selective Service. Then when the US gets into another war like VN, maybe with PRNK, you will get called up and end up in a war you don't want, or need. Just like I did 53 years ago. However, 55+ thousand of my cohort didn't come home from that one. My son had your choice (dual-citizenship) but elected to stay here and did his NS in the SG Navy. He's finished now and owns his own business. He has elected to stay in Singapore, but he was also duly registered with the US Selective Service system at 18 as well but the odds of being called up, if living overseas is virtually unheard of. This was taken into the factoring as well.

Start with the CMPB. There are a lot of good threads on this board in the Strictly Speaking subsection under the General Forum. Look for posts by Mad Scientist and Kraikk.

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby NSAdvice » Tue, 29 May 2018 4:36 am

The thing is, I have no intentions of going back to Singapore aside from visiting, so I don't want to go to NS and delay my life here in the US. In the end, if all my attempts have failed, I'll end up going back for NS, but that is definitely not ideal.

So what you are saying is my dad will have to give up his citizenship or else I have no chance of getting exempted, but he can't give up his citizenship for a long time. Doesn't this pretty much mean I don't really have a chance?

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 29 May 2018 8:57 am

Yes. Your entire family need to disconnect from Singapore.
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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby NSAdvice » Tue, 29 May 2018 9:58 am

So what I should do first is to inform CMPB about my choice to renounce citizenship at 21? And should this be a physical paper letter mailed to them or an email?

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 29 May 2018 10:02 am

NSAdvice wrote:So what I should do first is to inform CMPB about my choice to renounce citizenship at 21? And should this be a physical paper letter mailed to them or an email?

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby NSAdvice » Tue, 29 May 2018 10:06 am

Should the physical letter and email be the same or different? Also, should the letter be from me or my parents, or both?

Should I also be asking them to defer my NS or should it be done in a separate letter/to a different department?

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 29 May 2018 11:36 am

There are people on this forum that can provide you with more accurate advice than I can about the consequences of skipping your NS obligation (and it really looks to me that your parents did not do the necessary things for you to be able to legally avoid your NS obligation).

I will speak to you as a man that mentors young men. I urge you not to screw yourself for life with a decision to ignore the Singapore authorities and skip your NS obligation. You say, "I have no intentions of going back to Singapore aside from visiting". You do realize that you cannot even visit? If you are caught in the country you will be charged and you will do NS... and the likelihood of you getting caught if you enter the country is very high.

You do know that you cannot predict, with any possible precision, what the remainder of a long life has in store for you. You are Chinese and with the continued rise in power and dominance of China, Asia continues to take on increasing importance to both United States business and government, there will be many opportunities as an American or USA PR to have a career that will touch Asia.

Are you sure that you really want to put yourself at this kind of risk because, right now, two years seems like a very long time? I assure you, it is not. And, one more thing will come out of NS... a valuable network of contacts that will serve you well in later life.

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby NSAdvice » Tue, 29 May 2018 12:19 pm

What? I thought that the process of telling the Singapore government about renouncing my citizenship and getting a deferment was a legal way of getting an exemption from NS? So you're saying that this is actually illegal and there's no actual way of getting off the hook? What's the point of doing this whole complicated process if I could just ignore the Singaporean Government's attempts to bring me back for NS?

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 29 May 2018 3:59 pm

You've misread SEs advice. He is recommending you do NS. I am saying you maybe able to get out of it but like SE I doubt your parents have done the necessary paperwork for you to get out of it and/or you won't be able to establish USA citizenship in time to renounce SC.

If you ignore the situation you will end up listed as a NS defaulter and risk arrest in Singapore.
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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby okonu » Tue, 29 May 2018 6:03 pm

Yep - there is a chance you can get out of NS. Slim, but a chance.

If you can't get out of NS, then it is stupid to desert - you are better off doing it.

So, to summarise.
- you and your family need to follow the process to see if you can get out of NS. If you can, great.

- If you can't, then plan your life including doing NS

- Worst thing to do is try and get out, fail, and then don't turn up.

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 29 May 2018 8:03 pm

okonu wrote:Yep - there is a chance you can get out of NS. Slim, but a chance.

If you can't get out of NS, then it is stupid to desert - you are better off doing it.

So, to summarise.
- you and your family need to follow the process to see if you can get out of NS. If you can, great.

- If you can't, then plan your life including doing NS

- Worst thing to do is try and get out, fail, and then don't turn up.


Good summary. Slim chance and OP must move fast (and get his idiot parents to move as well).
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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 29 May 2018 10:17 pm

Sadly, the wrench in the machinery is going to be your father. If your father cannot get US citizenship virtually immediately, all will be for naught.

When did you father get his pr in the US? Did you get your PR at the same time? if so, then it will be probably another 1.5 years before he can even apply for naturalization, after that it will take another 6 months "minimum" up to a year or more to get U.S. Citizenship.

As you need to submit a letter to CMPB immediately with your request, the first question will be or they will check is whether your father has given up his SG citizenship yet. If not, no go. "Going to" will not cut it. It already has to be a done thing. Additionally, if he still has CPF in place or owns an HDB flat in Singapore. FAIL. He has to be fully divested of all things Singaporean. Otherwise, they look at it as leaving the backdoor open. As your father IS a Singaporean, he will probably be required to furnish a bond in any case as you will look like a potential flight risk (you are already in flight).

Personally, I don't see a happy ending in this. Your father has left it too late and he should have known that he had to be resident in the US as a PR for a minimum of 5 years before he an apply for naturalization and probably 6 years total before he could think about surrendering his SG citizenship. Good Luck. You are going to need it.

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby NSAdvice » Wed, 30 May 2018 4:41 am

Well that sucks. My dad and I got our PRs at the same time but my mom is getting a citizenship here very soon and she can bring me in with her. (Edit: My mom came here to work when I was 3, so she is eligible for citizenship here). That just leaves my dad and there seems to be nothing he can do. I guess this has been all for naught. I'll still make an attempt, for that very slim chance I have. Thanks for trying to help everyone.

If there are any changes to the rules or any other things that were missed that might be able to help me, I would really appreciate if you all can remember this thread and inform me. Thanks, everybody.

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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby PNGMK » Wed, 30 May 2018 9:00 am

The only changes to the rules in the last decade have been increasing the punishment for defaulters and closing any loopholes found by NS deserters. You're not going to be saved by a rule change allowing you to skip out NS. If so I'll be the first in line (along with the other 2 MM parents) at the PMO demanding you and others living overseas be extradited back and forced into NS. My son has to do it, so should you.

Regardless you should write to CMPB ASAP. Let us know how it goes.
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Re: Looking for Advice to Get Exempted From NS

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 30 May 2018 2:39 pm

NSAdvice wrote:Well that sucks. My dad and I got our PRs at the same time but my mom is getting a citizenship here very soon and she can bring me in with her. (Edit: My mom came here to work when I was 3, so she is eligible for citizenship here). That just leaves my dad and there seems to be nothing he can do. I guess this has been all for naught. I'll still make an attempt, for that very slim chance I have. Thanks for trying to help everyone.

If there are any changes to the rules or any other things that were missed that might be able to help me, I would really appreciate if you all can remember this thread and inform me. Thanks, everybody.


I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but even if you obtain US citizenship, you cannot renounce SG citizenship until such time as you have fulfilled your NS obligation. So the fact still remains, even if you get US citizenship tomorrow, you still have to do NS as you cannot renounce and you cannot avoid it as you have a Singapore Parent. It doesn't matter what your mother does. It's the father's nationality that is the stumbling block and it's too late to circumvent that. Just look at NS as an adventure and a learning experience. I'm of the belief that every young man should do at least 2 years of military service. And, if you are lucky, or in the Singapore Military, you might survive long enough to grow a set.

Oh, and by the way, if you were to come in via tag-along with your mother and gain citizenship an not able to renounce Singapore Citizenship because of your NS obligation, you are then in violation of another rule in Singapore. Singapore does not allow dual citizenship unless it is obtained at birth (which you currently are under). You cannot become a US citizen as you will then be in violation of Singapore law because you cannot hold dual citizenship with another 3rd country. Then you go to jail if caught AND have to do NS when you get out (or vice versa). Of course, this depends on the age at which you are caught. The older you get, the higher the penalties if you are too old for your NS obligation.


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