Working Remotely from Singapore as a Tax Resident - which pass/structure?

[PNGMK]

SingaporeDon - I think the answer depends on how long you want to be here in Singapore. If it's until you get a flight out well it doesn't matter. If it's more like "as long as the GFC is a shithole" then you need to regularize the situation by getting an EP. The problem is it appears your are working for the consultancy here and hiding the money via a convolution (even though that is not the intent).

[Myasis Dragon]

Next, let’s talk work passes. If you work for a company that has no legal presence in Singapore, ie, not registered as a legal entity, no office, no nothing, and that company does no business in Singapore of any kind, ie, it does not ship goods to end consumers in Singapore, or rent space, or drop ship, for example, then you do not need a work permit to work for that company. I have verified this with MoM. Example: There was an accountant who moved to Singapore with her husband. She continued to do the books for the company she as working for, doing so remotely with her home computer. The company had no presence whatsoever in Singapore. No work permit required.

Chew that over and get back to me with more questions.

Sorry to hijack this old thread but I have a question about work passes while working remotely for a Foreign employer when physically in Singapore on a STVP.
I am here on a 90 day short term visit pass (Uk citizen) granted due to extenuating circumstances as I was stuck in a God forsaken country (GFC) in complete coronavirus shutdown. I am still employed by my company in the GFC, and paid by them. MY SRVP is valid for two more months and i might get an extension- one month extension which they are granting to everyone during coronavirus or hopefully for 90 days extension as family i here. There are no flights back to my employer's country.

If I work remotely with my colleagues and clients in that country, nothing to do with Singapore clients, is it clear cut that I do not need a WP as Strong eagle mentions or should I apply for a work permit exemption online ? I am not doing any of the exempt activities mentioned on the MOM website like attending exhibitions, meetings clients in Singapore, training etc., just working remotely from my parents home in Singapore. The only difference from what Strong Eagle mentions above is that my foreign employer is in the consulting space and has an office in Singapore, although as far as I know both my home country employer and the Singapore offices, although with same name, are different legal entities, and I have no contact with the Singapore office at all.

Cannot get MOM on the phone, so if Strong Eagle or some one has similar experience would appreciate any pointers.

Here are the relevant thoughts and regulations.

You are in technical violation of the work permit rules since your company has a Singapore presence. The thinking of the Singapore government is simple... a Singaporean employed by the local company should be doing the work that you are doing, and therefore, you are stealing a job. At the very least, the gahmen wants to give permission for you to have this job, and to be employed locally to pay taxes locally. So... this is applicable to you.

Tons of people fly into Singapore on a social visit pass to work for the Singapore branch of the multi-national that they are employed by. Example: Dell flies in a systems architect from the USA to put together a large proposal. The person is in Singapore on a 90 day pass, works everyday at Dell, and still gets paid by Dell, USA. Nobody gets no kind of permit, no time, no place. This is very common, and mostly, nobody cares, because the positions are temporary, people pay tax in their home country, and really, there's no specific category of visa for this kind of work.

You are on a 90 day social visit pass. You may be the kind of worker bee that always checks in and does some work while on holiday. I have never heard of anyone working remotely while on holiday and getting hammered because their employer happened to have a Singapore office.

Bottom line: You are on a SVP, on (forced) holiday, doing what any busy executive would do while on holiday... checking in on work, because you know that when the cats are away, the rats will play. In my view, the nature of your stay is temporary, your stay was/is beyond your control, you're not actually planning on living in Singapore, the circumstances (Covid) are unusual, there is precedent for people on SVP to be working for home companies. So long as your overall stay remains temporary, I would not do anything... that's me.

The alternative is to contact the Singapore entity and work out a deal that transfers your job to them... it still doesn't matter who actually pays you. Then the Singapore company applies for an EP. But, I wouldn't do this if your total time forward is less than 90 days.

[SingaporeDon]

SingaporeDon - I think the answer depends on how long you want to be here in Singapore. If it's until you get a flight out well it doesn't matter. If it's more like "as long as the GFC is a shithole" then you need to regularize the situation by getting an EP. The problem is it appears your are working for the consultancy here and hiding the money via a convolution (even though that is not the intent).

Thanks Governor!
I just rechecked and the entity in Singapore is a separate legal entity, and the one in GFC which is the legal employer is locally incorporated in the GFC.
The intention is to go back as soon as the coronavirus situation settles down and flights resume. I continue to pay rent for my flat in GFC.
Both for me and for the GFC employer it does not make sense for me to continue working remotely for too long, and my time here will be capped by the expiry of the SVP, - 2 months now- may be extended by another month or 3 if the coronavirus situation continues and flights don’t resume. The intention is not to be physically in Singapore and continue working remotely for GFC employer. As soon as lockdown in GFC is over and GFC staff are allowed to go to office ( they are all working remotely now too from their respective homes in GFC) and start visiting clients, I intend to go back and start working there as long as flights have resumed by then. I was given SVP by ICA because of the coronavirus situation in GFC and my family being here and me having no family in GFC

Given that my main question is
1. Do I assume my working remotely for home country employer while physically in Singapore does not require a WP at all or
2. It will fall under the exemptions from getting a WP ( although remote working is not clearly listed amongst the 6 types of work for which exemptions can be applied for and granted ) so I can continue to work remotely but must apply for an exemption ftom getting a WP?

Thanks for your help. Must say very helpful and friendly forum
SingaporeDon

[SingaporeDon]

Next, let’s talk work passes. If you work for a company that has no legal presence in Singapore, ie, not registered as a legal entity, no office, no nothing, and that company does no business in Singapore of any kind, ie, it does not ship goods to end consumers in Singapore, or rent space, or drop ship, for example, then you do not need a work permit to work for that company. I have verified this with MoM. Example: There was an accountant who moved to Singapore with her husband. She continued to do the books for the company she as working for, doing so remotely with her home computer. The company had no presence whatsoever in Singapore. No work permit required.

Chew that over and get back to me with more questions.

Sorry to hijack this old thread but I have a question about work passes while working remotely for a Foreign employer when physically in Singapore on a STVP.
I am here on a 90 day short term visit pass (Uk citizen) granted due to extenuating circumstances as I was stuck in a God forsaken country (GFC) in complete coronavirus shutdown. I am still employed by my company in the GFC, and paid by them. MY SRVP is valid for two more months and i might get an extension- one month extension which they are granting to everyone during coronavirus or hopefully for 90 days extension as family i here. There are no flights back to my employer's country.

If I work remotely with my colleagues and clients in that country, nothing to do with Singapore clients, is it clear cut that I do not need a WP as Strong eagle mentions or should I apply for a work permit exemption online ? I am not doing any of the exempt activities mentioned on the MOM website like attending exhibitions, meetings clients in Singapore, training etc., just working remotely from my parents home in Singapore. The only difference from what Strong Eagle mentions above is that my foreign employer is in the consulting space and has an office in Singapore, although as far as I know both my home country employer and the Singapore offices, although with same name, are different legal entities, and I have no contact with the Singapore office at all.

Cannot get MOM on the phone, so if Strong Eagle or some one has similar experience would appreciate any pointers.

Here are the relevant thoughts and regulations.

You are in technical violation of the work permit rules since your company has a Singapore presence. The thinking of the Singapore government is simple... a Singaporean employed by the local company should be doing the work that you are doing, and therefore, you are stealing a job. At the very least, the gahmen wants to give permission for you to have this job, and to be employed locally to pay taxes locally. So... this is applicable to you.

Tons of people fly into Singapore on a social visit pass to work for the Singapore branch of the multi-national that they are employed by. Example: Dell flies in a systems architect from the USA to put together a large proposal. The person is in Singapore on a 90 day pass, works everyday at Dell, and still gets paid by Dell, USA. Nobody gets no kind of permit, no time, no place.

You are on a 90 day social visit pass. You may be the kind of worker bee that always checks in and does some work while on holiday. I have never heard of anyone working remotely while on holiday and getting hammered because their employer happened to have a Singapore office.

Bottom line: You are on a SVP, on (forced) holiday, doing what any busy executive would do while on holiday... checking in on work, because you know that when the cats are away, the rats will play. In my view, the nature of your stay is temporary, your stay was/is beyond your control, you're not actually planning on living in Singapore, the circumstances (Covid) are unusual, there is precedent for people on SVP to be working for home companies. So long as your overall stay remains temporary, I would not do anything... that's me.

The alternative is to contact the Singapore entity and work out a deal that transfers your job to them... it still doesn't matter who actually pays you. Then the Singapore company applies for an EP. But, I wouldn't do this if your total time forward is less than 90 days.

As noted in my other response post, the Singapore affiliate of the GFC company has the same branding - say PWC - but those are completely separate legal entities, each incorporated in their respective countries. Like the Dell employee in your example, I do not go to or do any work for the Singapore incorporated affiliate - to the extent that I do not even know or talk to any one there or even know where their office is exactly.
So my question remains
1. Does what I am doing not require a WP so I don’t need to worry as long as I stay only until the validity of my SVP or extended SVP) or
2. is remote working for home based employer now, given the unusual coronavirus situation, the seventh but so far unnamed by MOM category, (on top of the 6 specifically mentioned by MOM) of an exempt activity for which I should apply to MOM for an exemption from getting a WP

[PNGMK]

My view is that you're probably OK up to the 180 day mark where you run into tax residency issues. Also i think there are a few of you here in the same boat and we may see some guidance soon on this as it's somewhat if unprecedented situation.

Saying that the older folk on the forum remember Singapore being used an an offshore base for workers in the 70s and 80s and no one had the correct pass.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Yep, when I told the ICA officers at my PR interview that I had actually lived in Singapore, had a Singaporean wife, Singaporean Driving License (all classes except 5), 2 Singaporean children and 3 cars and all on a Bog Standard 30 SVP (no 90 day SVPs back in those days) his jaw almost hit the floor.

[Myasis Dragon]

but those are completely separate legal entities

Who owns the stock of the Singapore entity? They are not separate if the stock of the Singapore firm is held by the foreign firm.

Besides, you're tilting at windmills.

Facts are:

1. Singapore wants people working in Singapore to have work permits.

2. People on temporary assignment fly under the radar.

3. You're on an extended "fly under the radar" because of the pandemic.

All the rest about "separate legal entities" is bullshit. As PNGMK said, the gahmen is probably aware of "floaters" due to the pandemic and may issue advice. Or, they may determine that it isn't worth the hassle.

So... my advice is exactly the same as before. With a Singapore entity, you are in technical violation (unless, of course, you look up the Singapore firm and discover that its stock is not held by the foreign company). No one is going to give a shit for 90 more days. More than that, you better do something to make yourself legal.

[PNGMK]

I agree MD. Lots of floaters out here (and in Thailand, Indo, VN and the PI etc also) are starting to run into visa issues (Bali first). The era of the PT (perpetual tourist) moving from place to place to avoid tax residency are over soon. I've got reports from offshore friends who have been relying on tourist or short term visa seeing that those visas are no longer being renewed (TH, VN and Bali) and of course those same folk are unable to go much of anywhere except home (exceptions are Cambodia, Serbia, Istanbul and some african shiteholes). The digital nomads are being hit especially hard as they think no further ahead than their next IG post.

If you read the press out of Th and Bali it appears the govts there are using this crisis as a reset. I don't expect the ease of travelling for PT's to resume at all.

[SingaporeDon]

but those are completely separate legal entities

Who owns the stock of the Singapore entity? They are not separate if the stock of the Singapore firm is held by the foreign firm.

Besides, you're tilting at windmills.

Facts are:

1. Singapore wants people working in Singapore to have work permits.

2. People on temporary assignment fly under the radar.

3. You're on an extended "fly under the radar" because of the pandemic.

All the rest about "separate legal entities" is bullshit. As PNGMK said, the gahmen is probably aware of "floaters" due to the pandemic and may issue advice. Or, they may determine that it isn't worth the hassle.

So... my advice is exactly the same as before. With a Singapore entity, you are in technical violation (unless, of course, you look up the Singapore firm and discover that its stock is not held by the foreign company). No one is going to give a shit for 90 more days. More than that, you better do something to make yourself legal.

The GFC Entity does not own the Singapore entity, and vice versa. The firms like say PWC or E&Y are loosely associated but do not have common ownership. So PWC US partners don’t own PWC Singapore, just as PWC Singapore partners don’t own PWC USA. Both PWC Singapore and PWC USA are separate legal entities.

I understand the issue about floaters and the special coronavirus situation and lack of clarity from the government on the issue The question I have as part of “ do something to make yourself legal” as suggested by you is
1. Is working remotely for home based employer, paid by home based employer, with no connection or clients or work in Singapore clearly count as “ not gainfully employed in Singapore” and so does not require a WP at all as long as the stay in a Singapore under SVP is kosher and legal or
2. Does that remote working activity for home based employer fall within the 7th but so far unnamed exemption from getting a WP so that you can carry on remote working from Singapore but must apply for and get a WP exemption

[SingaporeDon]

Just as an aside, mine is more of a clarity on WP question, not really about Singapore taxes. If IRA treats me as Singapore tax resident as I am physically in Singapore for 183 days or more, I have no issues in filing and paying Singapore tax in addition to the home country tax I will pay for being on the GFC payroll.

[Myasis Dragon]

The GFC Entity does not own the Singapore entity, and vice versa. The firms like say PWC or E&Y are loosely associated but do not have common ownership. So PWC US partners don’t own PWC Singapore, just as PWC Singapore partners don’t own PWC USA. Both PWC Singapore and PWC USA are separate legal entities.

I understand the issue about floaters and the special coronavirus situation and lack of clarity from the government on the issue The question I have as part of “ do something to make yourself legal” as suggested by you is
1. Is working remotely for home based employer, paid by home based employer, with no connection or clients or work in Singapore clearly count as “ not gainfully employed in Singapore” and so does not require a WP at all as long as the stay in a Singapore under SVP is kosher and legal or
2. Does that remote working activity for home based employer fall within the 7th but so far unnamed exemption from getting a WP so that you can carry on remote working from Singapore but must apply for and get a WP exemption

I'm going to bet you $50 that if you or I attempted to setup a PWC in outer Mongolia, we'd soon have a legal team sending us a shitpot of cease and desist registered letters.

I'm going to bet you another $50 that there are strong interlocking agreements between every PWC office, independent ownership notwithstanding, that essentially creates a monolithic organization with respect to partners, process, procedure, and, oh yes, starting up another PWC office.

I'm going to bet an additional $50 that MoM and ICA absolutely do not give a flying f*ck about your artificial distinctions that allegedly make each unit independent. PWC Singapore = PWC elsewhere.

Why? Because the gahmen doesn't want you working for PWC as an expat, when PWC Singapore ought to be hiring you through the correct process. Therefore, you are not working for a home based employer. If you don't agree with my assertion, call MoM, ask them. Email them... they usually respond in 2 or 3 days to more complex questions.

Sidebar: I worked with a bunch of different Accenture consultants over a couple of years. They were all based in Singapore but they came from all over the place to take on the project... USA, India, UK... but every last one of them was here on an employment pass... they weren't working for that "home based employer".

You cannot work in Singapore on a social visit pass. Period. End. Nada. This is a fact. Therefore, on a social visit pass, you can never be tax resident. You can never be tax non-resident. Because, you can't work on a social visit pass in Singapore.

I will say it again. You are flying under the radar. You cannot work in Singapore, even for a foreign entity, without a valid residency permit (DP or LTVP). You seem to think that your "home based employer" is a separate entity. I disagree. You should call MoM. I'll toss in another $50 bet that they agree with me.

Again, you are flying under the radar. You are working as anyone on a temporary visa might work while visiting Singapore. But, you cannot get a work permit on a social visit pass. You cannot work and pay Singapore taxes on a social visit pass. In fact, you can't "get" a work permit at all... only your employer can apply for a work permit, and that employer must be a Singapore entity.

And as I think about it, it doesn't much matter if your Singapore and foreign firm are related or not. You can't work in Singapore on a SVP. You can't get a work permit, except that a Singapore company applies for you. That's it.

[SingaporeDon]

The GFC Entity does not own the Singapore entity, and vice versa. The firms like say PWC or E&Y are loosely associated but do not have common ownership. So PWC US partners don’t own PWC Singapore, just as PWC Singapore partners don’t own PWC USA. Both PWC Singapore and PWC USA are separate legal entities.

I understand the issue about floaters and the special coronavirus situation and lack of clarity from the government on the issue The question I have as part of “ do something to make yourself legal” as suggested by you is
1. Is working remotely for home based employer, paid by home based employer, with no connection or clients or work in Singapore clearly count as “ not gainfully employed in Singapore” and so does not require a WP at all as long as the stay in a Singapore under SVP is kosher and legal or
2. Does that remote working activity for home based employer fall within the 7th but so far unnamed exemption from getting a WP so that you can carry on remote working from Singapore but must apply for and get a WP exemption

I'm going to bet you $50 that if you or I attempted to setup a PWC in outer Mongolia, we'd soon have a legal team sending us a shitpot of cease and desist registered letters.

I'm going to bet you another $50 that there are strong interlocking agreements between every PWC office, independent ownership notwithstanding, that essentially creates a monolithic organization with respect to partners, process, procedure, and, oh yes, starting up another PWC office.

I'm going to bet an additional $50 that MoM and ICA absolutely do not give a flying f*ck about your artificial distinctions that allegedly make each unit independent. PWC Singapore = PWC elsewhere.

Why? Because the gahmen doesn't want you working for PWC as an expat, when PWC Singapore ought to be hiring you through the correct process. Therefore, you are not working for a home based employer. If you don't agree with my assertion, call MoM, ask them. Email them... they usually respond in 2 or 3 days to more complex questions.

Sidebar: I worked with a bunch of different Accenture consultants over a couple of years. They were all based in Singapore but they came from all over the place to take on the project... USA, India, UK... but every last one of them was here on an employment pass... they weren't working for that "home based employer".

You cannot work in Singapore on a social visit pass. Period. End. Nada. This is a fact. Therefore, on a social visit pass, you can never be tax resident. You can never be tax non-resident. Because, you can't work on a social visit pass in Singapore.

I will say it again. You are flying under the radar. You cannot work in Singapore, even for a foreign entity, without a valid residency permit (DP or LTVP). You seem to think that your "home based employer" is a separate entity. I disagree. You should call MoM. I'll toss in another $50 bet that they agree with me.

Again, you are flying under the radar. You are working as anyone on a temporary visa might work while visiting Singapore. But, you cannot get a work permit on a social visit pass. You cannot work and pay Singapore taxes on a social visit pass. In fact, you can't "get" a work permit at all... only your employer can apply for a work permit, and that employer must be a Singapore entity.

And as I think about it, it doesn't much matter if your Singapore and foreign firm are related or not. You can't work in Singapore on a SVP. You can't get a work permit, except that a Singapore company applies for you. That's it.

Thank you MyasisDragon
I did exactly what you suggested ("You should call MoM. I'll toss in another $50 bet that they agree with me"), not once but twice to double confirm ( I guess you owe me $100 now!!) and both MoM staff I spoke to independently confirmed that working remotely for GFC employer while physically in Singapore does not, REPEAT NOT require a WP. Both specifically said that you do not need to apply for a WP Exemption, and categorically stated that no WP is required only ICA permission to stay in Singapore, and that as long as you have permission from ICA to be in Singapore, even on a social visit pass, you do NOT require a WP to work remotely for you home country based employer.

May be they are interpreting the rules more leniently given the coronovirus lockdowns, lack of flights etc., as someone suggested up thread, but that is not the impression both the MoM staff gave me, they implied that is the rule from before and not a special rule for now.

When you give the example in your last Sidebar ( I worked with a bunch of different Accenture consultants over a couple of years. They were all based in Singapore but they came from all over the place to take on the project... USA, India, UK... but every last one of them was here on an employment pass... they weren't working for that "home based employer") you clearly do not understand my question. your Accenture friends came from all over the world, but worked for Accenture Singapore. The present case we are talking about is where I am not working for PWC Singapore or its clients or paid by PWC Singapore-don't even know anybody in PWC Singapore , but am employed, paid for and am working with PWC GFC colleagues and clients remotely from Singapore because I am stuck in Singapore due to coronovirus, and lack of flights etc.. I am not taking away a Singapore based job from a local Singaporean.

I don't want to argue with you any more so please don't respond to this post.

But for others in the forum, I just wanted to let them know what I heard from the horse's mouth i.e. MoM staff, confirming that working remotely for your foreign employer, while being on their payroll and working on their clients and working with colleagues who are still based in that foreign country does not require a WP as far as MoM is concerned.

Have a good day, Singapore Don

[Myasis Dragon]

Don't worry about a response from me... you've got it all figured out.

[SingaporeDon]

Don't worry about a response from me... you've got it all figured out.

Myasis Dragon,

Now I have got WRITTEN confirmation from MOM that as a foreigner working remotely from Singapore for a foreign employer, on the foreign employer's payroll, for foreign employer's clients I do not, REPEAT DO NOT need a Work Permit or even an exemption from a Work Permit. They said all I need to make sure is that I have a social visit pass issued or extended for my stay in Singapore by ICA

I am not interested in engaging in any conversation with you so dont bother to respond to my post. I wanted to post this for the benefit of other forum members who may be in similar circumstances and may have been mislead by the pure hearsay post submitted by you with apparent authority but clearly wrong advice.

[sundaymorningstaple]

SingaporeDon, you are correct. In fact, I more or less confirmed it in my earlier short post where I'd indicated I actually spent 11 years on a SVP working for Oceaneering Int'l from their foreign registered office here but for international clients in offshore locations outside of Singapore, even though I got my order, flights, equipment and salary from that foreign office here. Our local divers (Singaporeans) however, were employed by them to work both locally and offshore and therefore were tax liable and had to pay CPF & Income taxes on any income earned as a direct result of work in Singapore, but not on their offshore income from offshore foreign clients.