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Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
Silversea
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Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby Silversea » Wed, 27 Dec 2017 12:53 pm

(Long texts warning)

Hi all, depends on how you view it, I'm in and not in trouble right now.

I'm 28yr old Chinese male, born and raised in Singapore. I have 2 younger sisters, 23 and 27yr old, born and raised in Singapore too. My father is a Singaporean, mother is a Malaysian. We have all been working to support the family. Financially stable. So far so good.

But my 2 sisters and I are without a nationality. We are all stateless.

The story is that my mom had been overstaying for very long and my dad had been trying to avoid the authority. He didn't register us for primary school nor did he apply for our IC when we were of age. Basically Singapore didn't know where we live and the NS enlistment letter didn't manage to reach us when I was 18.

I was too afraid to hurt my parents, so I had been keeping quiet. But a couple years ago, I decided things cannot continue any longer like this so I turned my whole family in to ICA. After alot of interviews, the dust finally settled. My parents got their punishments, special pass were issued to me and my sisters to allow us to stay in Singapore legally, and my mother was sent back to Malaysia. Okay case closed.

But I'm still stateless, the special pass is the only thing I have to prove who I am. Very close to a refugee status. I'm currently employed under the consent of Ministry of Manpower.

I tried applying for Singapore Citizenship, but was told I have to be a Permanent Resident first. I tried applying for PR and was told holding a passport was one of the requirements. As you all know, passport will require a citizenship. A pile of dry woods with no tinder.

I wish to contribute back to the society and not afraid of National Service but I don't have a chance to do just that. I'm kinda lost now and don't know where to go from here, any advice would be appreciated by me and my sisters.

Hanmi1974
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Re: Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby Hanmi1974 » Wed, 27 Dec 2017 1:30 pm

I don't think many people here will have much experience with your situation; however, I did recently read an article (http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/st ... r-50-years) about someone else in a similar situation. I think the next step is to try and get your MP involved. You need someone who can help push or at least point you in the right direction. Best of luck

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x9200
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Re: Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby x9200 » Wed, 27 Dec 2017 4:34 pm

Silversea wrote:(Long texts warning)

Hi all, depends on how you view it, I'm in and not in trouble right now.

I'm 28yr old Chinese male, born and raised in Singapore. I have 2 younger sisters, 23 and 27yr old, born and raised in Singapore too. My father is a Singaporean, mother is a Malaysian. We have all been working to support the family. Financially stable. So far so good.

So your parents were no legally married or your father was not a Singapore citizen at the time you were born?

Silversea
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Re: Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby Silversea » Wed, 27 Dec 2017 5:08 pm

x9200 wrote:
Silversea wrote:(Long texts warning)

Hi all, depends on how you view it, I'm in and not in trouble right now.

I'm 28yr old Chinese male, born and raised in Singapore. I have 2 younger sisters, 23 and 27yr old, born and raised in Singapore too. My father is a Singaporean, mother is a Malaysian. We have all been working to support the family. Financially stable. So far so good.

So your parents were no legally married or your father was not a Singapore citizen at the time you were born?


Yes, they weren't, all the kids were born before they got married. Their ROM just happened 3 months ago only.

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x9200
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Re: Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby x9200 » Wed, 27 Dec 2017 5:29 pm

Silversea wrote:
x9200 wrote:
Silversea wrote:(Long texts warning)

Hi all, depends on how you view it, I'm in and not in trouble right now.

I'm 28yr old Chinese male, born and raised in Singapore. I have 2 younger sisters, 23 and 27yr old, born and raised in Singapore too. My father is a Singaporean, mother is a Malaysian. We have all been working to support the family. Financially stable. So far so good.

So your parents were no legally married or your father was not a Singapore citizen at the time you were born?


Yes, they weren't, all the kids were born before they got married. Their ROM just happened 3 months ago only.

That sucks.
How about this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_nationality_law)
The criteria to be a Malaysian citizen are:
Every person born on or after Malaysia Day, and having any of the qualifications specified below
[..]
4. Every person born in Singapore of whose parents one at least is at the time of the birth a citizen and who is not born citizen otherwise than by virtue of this paragraph

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PNGMK
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Re: Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 29 Dec 2017 6:03 pm

I would pursue;

1. SC/PC as above
2. Malaysian citizenship

and consider migrating (it's possible as a stateless person) to Canada etc....

How did you get an education?
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

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Re: Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby Barnsley » Fri, 29 Dec 2017 6:18 pm

PNGMK wrote:
How did you get an education?


School of Hard Knocks , then onto the University of Life :mrgreen:
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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PNGMK
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Re: Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby PNGMK » Sat, 30 Dec 2017 2:21 am

OP - I have genuine sympathy and empathy for you and your sisters. My entire family (grandfather, grandmother and mother) were rendered stateless at the end of WWII as they were ethnic Germans from a part of Czechoslovakia that Germany had occupied prior to WWII. At the end of WWII the Czechs' confiscated their property and drove them out. Fortunately my Grandfather was able to migrate to Australia and bring out my mother and grandmother and they are now obviously Australian.

Personally I think it's utter BS that you are not recognized as a Singapore citizen because you have a Singapore father. The constitution passes this on to you. Secondly I personally feel that Singapore is ignoring her obligations to you under the UN Treaty on Statelessness by refusing you SC on the basis that your parents were not married and they didn't register your birth. (https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetai ... &clang=_en).

Read Singapore Constitution Article 122(1). It's confusing but I think you can find a way through.

Have you rung around to see if you can get a lawyer to assist you on a pro bono basis?

I encourage you to become the richest, most respected stateless person in Singapore... .so that when the PAPPIES try to fete you, you can remind them.... "I'm not Singaporean lor".
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 30 Dec 2017 10:39 am

^^^^^THIS! :cool:

Silversea
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Re: Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby Silversea » Wed, 03 Jan 2018 10:15 am

PNGMK wrote:OP - I have genuine sympathy and empathy for you and your sisters. My entire family (grandfather, grandmother and mother) were rendered stateless at the end of WWII as they were ethnic Germans from a part of Czechoslovakia that Germany had occupied prior to WWII. At the end of WWII the Czechs' confiscated their property and drove them out. Fortunately my Grandfather was able to migrate to Australia and bring out my mother and grandmother and they are now obviously Australian.

Personally I think it's utter BS that you are not recognized as a Singapore citizen because you have a Singapore father. The constitution passes this on to you. Secondly I personally feel that Singapore is ignoring her obligations to you under the UN Treaty on Statelessness by refusing you SC on the basis that your parents were not married and they didn't register your birth. (https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetai ... &clang=_en).

Read Singapore Constitution Article 122(1). It's confusing but I think you can find a way through.

Have you rung around to see if you can get a lawyer to assist you on a pro bono basis?

I encourage you to become the richest, most respected stateless person in Singapore... .so that when the PAPPIES try to fete you, you can remind them.... "I'm not Singaporean lor".


Thanks man for your advices.

My education all happened at home or online, where myself were the teachers.

I have spoken to a lawyer before, but the reply was he could do nothing because it is the law and there was nothing to fight against.

My family is doing okay now financially. Just that being stateless means I can't really plan or buy anything for myself, like properties, houses or any insurance plans. What seems to be okay now might not be the next second, that is what I'm concerned about.

I'm in no way to be the richest in Singapore, and being stateless certainly makes it even more impossible.

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Re: Stateless 28years old guy (and his 2 sisters)

Postby Addadude » Wed, 03 Jan 2018 11:20 am

OP, if everything you have stated is true, your situation seems ridiculously unfair.

I would second Hanmi1974's advice about contacting your MP - although ironically he's not technically your MP.

I would also reach out to the mainstream media - TNP and Today and share your story. It would appear that the only way to get anything done is to embarrass enough officials that they have to do something.

If this really is a legal/bureaucratic cock up then it needs to be addressed. Just be very sure that all the facts are as you set out.
"Both politicians and nappies need to be changed regularly, and for the same reasons."


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