Singapore Expats

The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Discuss your views about Singapore business & economy, current policies & issues, starting a business in Singapore.
Post Reply
User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11739
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:13 am
Answers: 10
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by Strong Eagle » Thu, 07 Mar 2024 1:48 pm

tiktok wrote:
Thu, 07 Mar 2024 10:01 am
Bitcoin is a recognised store of value
Bullshit. There is no way that shitcoin is a store of value. Buy it today for $1000 and watch it drop to $250 when all the rubes get scared and bail.

There's a big difference between shitcoin, which is backed by nothing, and fiat currency which is backed by a government promise to pay.

You're wrong about gold as well. It's a commodity, useful for many things. Speculation may affect the price of gold, just as speculation affects oil markets, but whereas gold has many uses, shitcoin has none.

You're right about one thing, though. Like shitcoin, gold is a lousy "investment".

tiktok
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 666
Joined: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 5:04 pm

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by tiktok » Thu, 07 Mar 2024 2:14 pm

Bitcoin is not backed by a government it's true, it's backed by technology. Some technical understanding is needed. But that technology is way more reliable and incorruptible than any government and their promises. It is completely immutable and outside of human control.

Bitcoin can be used to buy stuff, not everything but a lot. Good luck buying something online with a block of gold. On the range of usefulness, bitcoin is somewhere between gold and fiat.

At the end of the day it's all based on a critical mass of belief in the value of something. Everyone believes gold has value, therefore it has value. Like or not, a lot of people believe bitcoin has value.
I not troll/wacko/spammer.
Me no expat. Me foreigner.

smoulder
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1422
Joined: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 11:05 pm

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by smoulder » Thu, 07 Mar 2024 2:40 pm

I believe you are confusing the security provided by the use of a certain technology to implement cryptocurrency with the value (or lack thereof) of the "commodity". They are not the same.

tiktok
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 666
Joined: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 5:04 pm

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by tiktok » Thu, 07 Mar 2024 2:51 pm

If you understand the technology, you will know that supply is predictable, transactions are immutable (therefore it's indestructible), and hacking is astronomically unlikely. Obviously a lot of people do understand this, and that's why they see it as a store of value. So no, there's no confusion.
I not troll/wacko/spammer.
Me no expat. Me foreigner.

smoulder
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1422
Joined: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 11:05 pm

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by smoulder » Thu, 07 Mar 2024 2:55 pm

It's a store of value because it can't be hacked easily? OK interesting theory. So my empty biscuit tin should be worth billions or trillions of dollars because I keep it very securely. Even if someone manages to get to it, it has nothing in it except air 🤔

tiktok
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 666
Joined: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 5:04 pm

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by tiktok » Thu, 07 Mar 2024 3:06 pm

The inability to hack means you can be certain of future supply, and that your bitcoin cannot be stolen. Those things are factors in the belief of store of wealth. Do I really need to spell this out?

If enough people believe empty biscuit tins are valuable, then biscuit tins can be a store of wealth.
I not troll/wacko/spammer.
Me no expat. Me foreigner.

smoulder
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1422
Joined: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 11:05 pm

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by smoulder » Thu, 07 Mar 2024 3:15 pm

Now what would happen when the governments make digital currencies more widespread? Same technologies, but backed by governments. Bitcoin "believers" will convert?

tiktok
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 666
Joined: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 5:04 pm

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by tiktok » Thu, 07 Mar 2024 3:26 pm

Government created digital currencies lack the main selling point of crypto: lack of sovereign interference. So they will never be a serious competitor.

Also, unless a government is brave enough to make a pure crypto currency that is completely autonomous (why would they?) then the currency must have some mechanism of control, and ergo is hackable, making it even less appealing.
I not troll/wacko/spammer.
Me no expat. Me foreigner.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11739
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:13 am
Answers: 10
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by Strong Eagle » Sat, 09 Mar 2024 8:10 am

Here's another reason that shitcoin needs to be curtailed. It is consuming enormous amounts of power to produce bitcoin. China outlawed bitcoin mining. Texas, being an "anything goes" state, welcomed shitcoin miners before realizing that they were putting the power grid at risk. Shitcoin mining currently uses 2 gigawatts about 2.5 percent of peak generating capacity but there are another 32 gigawatts of capacity waiting for license approval. It's f*cking ridiculous, made worse by driving up energy costs, and in that when the winter storm killed generating capacity, the state paid shitcoin miners millions of dollars for temporarily turning off their operations. Can you say, "What a f*cking ripoff of the average consumer?"

Image

A worker installs a new row of bitcoin mining machines at the Whinstone US bitcoin mining facility in Rockdale, Texas on Octobers. 2021 PHOTO -ILLUSTRATION : WIRED STAFF;
HARK FELIX/GETTY IMAGES

PS: Who do you think is making all the money off shitcoin with giant capital and operational expenses like this? It sure aint the dope that put his life savings of $32,592 into shitcoin.

tiktok
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 666
Joined: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 5:04 pm

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by tiktok » Sat, 09 Mar 2024 10:58 am

You are right on this point. Bitcoin's minting system ("proof of work") is stupidly energy intensive and slow. It's why transactions take about 10 minutes. Other cryptos have solved these problems with e.g. proof of stake. But storers of value don't care, because BTC's market cap dwarfs the others.
I not troll/wacko/spammer.
Me no expat. Me foreigner.

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2958
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 9
Location: Pacific Rim

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by malcontent » Sun, 10 Mar 2024 1:08 am

I think it was Warren Buffett who called bitcoin “rat poison” and said he wouldn’t put a single cent into it. It’s almost a pure speculative instrument (if I can even call it an instrument) at this stage. Despite the libertarian appeal, at the moment crypto doesn’t serve any genuinely useful purpose in the world (except for criminals and speculators). Could that change in the future? I like to keep an open mind… but I wouldn’t want to speculate, and I certainly won’t be.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11739
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:13 am
Answers: 10
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by Strong Eagle » Sun, 10 Mar 2024 4:08 am

One shitcoin, in the most efficient mining operations, consumes about 155,000 kilowatt hours (kWh). The average home miner will expend about 266,000 kWh to produce one bitcoin. By comparison, the average US home uses a bit under 1000 kWh per month.

My energy costs in Texas are about 15 cents per kWh. At that rate, one bitcoin has an electrical cost of $23,250 for an efficient operator, and $39,900 for the solo operator. And that doesn't count the equipment costs.

They probably pay less for electricity than us residential stiffs, further screwing the average family.

tiktok
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 666
Joined: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 5:04 pm

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by tiktok » Sun, 10 Mar 2024 8:41 pm

And the price keeps going up... next stop 70k
I not troll/wacko/spammer.
Me no expat. Me foreigner.

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2958
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 9
Location: Pacific Rim

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by malcontent » Mon, 11 Mar 2024 10:41 pm

tiktok wrote:
Sun, 10 Mar 2024 8:41 pm
And the price keeps going up... next stop 70k
It’s a speculator’s wet dream, until you wake up with a mess in your lap.

I’m not a dreamer, I’m a doer.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

tiktok
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 666
Joined: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 5:04 pm

Re: The Bitcoin topic that Wd40 wanted :)

Post by tiktok » Tue, 12 Mar 2024 8:01 am

Here's what the CEO of Blackrock (the largest money manager in the world) thinks about this speculative shitcoin.

I not troll/wacko/spammer.
Me no expat. Me foreigner.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Business in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest