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SC or LTVP or PR - Kid born in America to SC & PR Parent

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SC or LTVP or PR - Kid born in America to SC & PR Parent

Postby mskishor » Sun, 08 Oct 2017 12:37 pm

Hi,

Myself SPR and wife is SC. We came to US 1.5 year back for work and last month we are blessed with baby boy. By law, all new borns in US will be US Citizen, We wanted to apply for SG citizenship as well for our baby since we have strong have roots in SG and planning to back after few years. Both the countries allow dual citizenship till the age of 18. After 18, it will be either SG or US citizenship. Try to understand and get opinion from people on dual citizenship and its pros & cons.

We are not afraid or trying to skip NS in SG for our son. Renouncing citizenship either SG or US will really have some issues in future. So trying to make wise choice. So what to would be the best - Dual Citizenship US + SG, PR, LTVP.

Regards
Virkly.

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Re: SC or LTVP or PR - Kid born in America to SC & PR Parent

Postby bcheng74 » Sun, 08 Oct 2017 8:59 pm

First, be careful about your own PR status. You are no longer resident in Singapore and your REP will be hugely impacted in the next renewal. Second, what cons do u expect apart from the NS liability?


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Re: SC or LTVP or PR - Kid born in America to SC & PR Parent

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 09 Oct 2017 2:03 pm

Are you sure the child will only have 2 nationalities? Sounds like three to me. As you are only a SPR, I'm assuming you are an Indian National, correct? So the child will also be an Indian citizen as well? My children were both dual citizens (SG & US).

Both did their entire schooling in Singapore and my son did his NS here. Both have opted to stay here. I'm still a PR here after 35 years in Singapore. As far as making a decision, Today (my thoughts were considerably different 28 years ago when my son was born. His sister, 5 years his senior is not an issue, but when he was born, I also had to deal with the NS issue. Rather than hamstring him at some time in the future, I opted to get him dual citizenship and he was registered timely with the US Selective Service and when he got is call up for NS here he did it. This way he didn't burn any bridges.

My thoughts for staying here rather than sending/taking him back to the US was that my country likes to fight wars that aren't ours (I'm a Nam Vet). I am however pro-military service and I think all boys need to serve. However, I don't like the idea of putting them in a potentially dangerous situation (albeit the US military is all voluntary since 1975) where he could have found himself in a war not of his own choosing. I don't believe in looking for trouble but think all males should do some military service to help them grow up and learn about obligation.

I cannot make the bed my son must sleep in the rest of his life. I can however, advise him not to burn any bridges if he can help it and to think things through as carefully as he can. I cannot live his life for him, nor do I want to. Today, I'm not sure which would be the safest. (Trump is a temporary thing unless he loses it with PRNK) But Singapore could very well find itself sucking hind tit with China before the whole S.China Sea thing if finished if Singapore doesn't learn when to shut it's mouth. But you need to consider all things, but not make his decisions for him. I talked to my son from the age of 6 every year around his birthday about the issues he would be facing. While he didn't understand at 6 by the age of 11 he had a pretty good idea.

But, don't load you kid down with baggage if you understand what I'm referring to. (My wife is an Indian if you didn't already know)

sms

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Re: SC or LTVP or PR - Kid born in America to SC & PR Parent

Postby Sporkin » Mon, 09 Oct 2017 6:39 pm

Does Singapore allow dual citizenship for offsprings? Don't the kids have to renounce one or the other when they reach 21 years of age or are they more flexible now?

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Re: SC or LTVP or PR - Kid born in America to SC & PR Parent

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 09 Oct 2017 11:23 pm

Sporkin wrote:Does Singapore allow dual citizenship for offsprings? Don't the kids have to renounce one or the other when they reach 21 years of age or are they more flexible now?

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Yes, children born to mixed nationalities need to register if born outside of Singapore to a SG citizen. As an unconditional basis for citizenship, jus soli is the predominant rule in the Americas, but it is rare elsewhere. So a child born in the US, regardless of his parents citizenship, is given citizenship by birthright. The child can also obtain Singapore citizenship by right of descent if one parent is a SG Citizen.

"Persons who are born outside of Singapore and have at least one parent who is a Singapore citizen may register with a Singapore consulate within a year to acquire Singapore citizenship by descent. However, such persons must renounce their foreign citizenship, if any, before reaching 22 years of age. The Constitution of Singapore is silent on a Singapore citizen who acquired citizenship by birth and is a foreign citizen by descent. So long as such a person refrains from exercising the rights of foreign citizenship, the Government has no grounds for depriving him of his Singapore citizenship and he may hold on to dual citizenship."

However, in the case of a male child, he is not allowed to renounce SG citizenship unless he has fulfilled his NS obligation. If he does not do it, woe be it to him, as he will be classified as a deserter and will spend time in jail as well as a hefty fine and depending on his age, possibly still doing NS. So if he takes up SG Citizenship, regardless of the other citizenship he holds, he is obligated to NS whether he likes it or not.

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Re: SC or LTVP or PR - Kid born in America to SC & PR Parent

Postby Sporkin » Tue, 10 Oct 2017 8:16 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Sporkin wrote:Does Singapore allow dual citizenship for offsprings? Don't the kids have to renounce one or the other when they reach 21 years of age or are they more flexible now?

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Yes, children born to mixed nationalities need to register if born outside of Singapore to a SG citizen. As an unconditional basis for citizenship, jus soli is the predominant rule in the Americas, but it is rare elsewhere. So a child born in the US, regardless of his parents citizenship, is given citizenship by birthright. The child can also obtain Singapore citizenship by right of descent if one parent is a SG Citizen.

"Persons who are born outside of Singapore and have at least one parent who is a Singapore citizen may register with a Singapore consulate within a year to acquire Singapore citizenship by descent. However, such persons must renounce their foreign citizenship, if any, before reaching 22 years of age. The Constitution of Singapore is silent on a Singapore citizen who acquired citizenship by birth and is a foreign citizen by descent. So long as such a person refrains from exercising the rights of foreign citizenship, the Government has no grounds for depriving him of his Singapore citizenship and he may hold on to dual citizenship."

However, in the case of a male child, he is not allowed to renounce SG citizenship unless he has fulfilled his NS obligation. If he does not do it, woe be it to him, as he will be classified as a deserter and will spend time in jail as well as a hefty fine and depending on his age, possibly still doing NS. So if he takes up SG Citizenship, regardless of the other citizenship he holds, he is obligated to NS whether he likes it or not.
I see, thanks SMS

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Re: SC or LTVP or PR - Kid born in America to SC & PR Parent

Postby ppt » Tue, 10 Oct 2017 9:32 pm

hi,
i was a spr since child as my parents are not sc. i got my sc during my teens when my mum decided to be sc. i had to decide which of the two citizenships to keep at age of 18. i took sc since i grew up in sg. but it was still a tough decision to make as a young adult, especially because i knew that it was a not-turning-back decision. the decision for my university studies was easier than this one, because i can drop my studies if i made the wrong choice, but not here.
now i am married to a non-sc too. but i did not apply sc for my kids because it will force them to decide for a country when they havent even explored both worlds as working adults.

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Re: SC or LTVP or PR - Kid born in America to SC & PR Parent

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 11 Oct 2017 9:48 am

ppt wrote:hi,
i was a spr since child as my parents are not sc. i got my sc during my teens when my mum decided to be sc. i had to decide which of the two citizenships to keep at age of 18. i took sc since i grew up in sg. but it was still a tough decision to make as a young adult, especially because i knew that it was a not-turning-back decision. the decision for my university studies was easier than this one, because i can drop my studies if i made the wrong choice, but not here.
now i am married to a non-sc too. but i did not apply sc for my kids because it will force them to decide for a country when they havent even explored both worlds as working adults.


So, you made up the child's mind before he's even had a chance. Where are you currently located? Are you still living in Singapore? In your narrow mindedness, you are limiting their options when they comes of age. If he is growing up in Singapore, but on an LTVP and/or Student passes, his circle of friends will, of course, be a mix of nationalities depending on which school system he is in and where you are living (HDB or ethnic conclave like the old Holland Village). You should have opted for dual citizenship and annually had talks with the child so the child know the variables and what the ramifications may be. If the child is a Male child, it's even worse due to the NS issue.

Sure you can avoid NS by not getting his SGC or even PR. However let me tell you what will ultimately happen (I know this for fact and I have knows someone who is in a similar situation and I've know him since he was 15 (he 27 today and now suffers because of a father's "smart" decision.)

He was the offspring of a Male SGC and a European SPR but was born in the UK. He was brought into Singapore while still a toddler and was put on a LTVP and then student visas all through school. When he graduated from a local Int'l school, he went back to the UK for his tertiary education and when he finished he had a B.Sc & M.Sc and his father wanted to bring him back to Singapore to join in the family business. Oops. (I informed the father when the boy was 15 what was going to happen, but like a lot of locals here, they think they know everything - so he disregarded my advice). As the boy is now a man, over the age of majority, without SGC (and avoided NS), the ICA rejected all attempts for an LTVP. Also the MOM rejected all applications for EPs with the admonishment (in writing) that he had "unresolved issues with Mindef" and had to get them sorted out before MOM would consider any type of work pass. You see, the problem is ICA and MOM are not stupid, unlike the average local who thinks that they will ultimately be able to pull the wool over the eyes of the authorities. One look at the Application and the nationalities of the Parents (one a SG citizen) and the game was up. The ruse by the parents was obvious and the boy cannot qualify for an EP because of not doing NS (because they saw what the parents did).

The boy only has to thank his parents for putting him into that situation. Now, take it a little bit further. Let's assume the child goes to school here up through their A levels or IB as it were. The odds of him finding a soul mate while doing his As is a distinct possibility and she/he might be willing to wait for them to return from their overseas studies. BANG. Cannot stay in Singapore. Now he can REALLY THANK HIS PARENTS. Unfair? You bet. And he had no say in the matter of his own life. He will NEVER get an LTVP or a Work Pass in Singapore. Full Stop. Payback is a mother and the government here has an awful long memory.

I feel sorry for your children as they have had their options for their future limited by you, the parents. =D> :x


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