sundaymorningstaple wrote:gartheven2000 wrote:Btw many pple feel, very illogically, that people who undergone PS somehow carry the obligation to come clean on it. Plezzz.. PS, like most decisions, boils down to cost and benefit. People who do PS do not impinge on others rights, and hence do not own the truth to others!!! In fact, for others to even ask the patient can be construed as a violation of privacy! For instance, is ur guy fren even obliged to tell u his penis is short?!? the Since the PS patient want to maximize the benefit of PS to ownself by mimicking natural beauty, which society values, then the only logical choice is to always deny the PS!!!!
I normally don't get into the actual discussions on this thread unless it's to quell combative posters who start slagging off other posters. However, I'd like to pose a theoretical question to you regarding your statements above.
I tend to agree with you that it is your own personal business as to whether or not you have had PS but only to a certain extent. Let's take it one step further shall we?
Let's assume that you have had quite a few ops to alter or create a falsehood impression to present to others. I say a falsehood as you are still the same person (beautiful or ugly) on the inside. You keep this a secret. You meet a boy/girl as the case may be (I haven't read enough to determine you gender but it's really not material). You fall in love and eventually marry. If you are lucky, you may have children. (Or unlucky more than likely). What happens when your offspring are ugly as sin? (Haven't you impinged on someone else's life with your secrecy?)What happens when you find out that wife/husband is all false front with nothing else just like you and felt the same way as you did and kept it secret?
The old saying that beauty is only skin deep but ugly goes all the way to the bone is true. No matter what you do to yourself because of your insecurities or vanity you cannot change your genes. Your offspring will inherit you and your wife/husbands genes and not your operations. How will the children feel when they look into the mirror and see what? Will they wonder if they are freaks? Will they wonder if they are adopted.
Just wondering how this would stand up to your privacy stand. I am not trying to be antagonistic here but I am curious whether all the posters here even thought that far into the future.
sms
hi SMS, nice to see you here
actually what i wrote in the highlighted sentence is in the context similar to Dawn Yang's case where people not her loved ones criticize her for "not coming clean". I find this argument spurious. As for your example abt marriage partner, i agree that PS should be disclosed.
My partner marries me for all that i am, including the appearance and the likely quality of the offspring. She (i'm a guy) is a vital stakeholder and hence she owns the right to the truth. Simple as that. However to those that merely undergone minor PS and do not want to disclose to avoid any complications (maybe spouse is ultra anti-PS?), i'm not gonna throw a stone.
So actually up til then we're mostly in agreement. Bu you've said more things i feel uncomfortable with.
"beauty is only skin deep but ugly goes all the way to the bone" You seem to interpret "ugly" as genetic ugliness and bones as genes. however Aloha's interpretation that both ugly and bones are spiritual terms is correct. Else beauty would also "go all the way to the bone too (i.e.genes)". And the moral didactic meaning commonly attributed to this phrase wld be absolutely inverted on its head!
And this is the crux....our inner person is still a far better representation of who we are rather than our appearances. Hence your choice of a strong word like "falsehood" would be more appropriate for people who pretend to have good character when they do not. Like i said, i favor disclosure to spouse.
The questions abt children make sense, but only to an extent. Vast majority of PS patients are not very ugly. Even if they are, by undergoing PS, they improve the chances to marry good lookers AND have the children inherit good-looker genes. If it goes 50% good , 50% ugly, the offspring might not even need PS anymore! This is a far better outcome that 2 very ugly people coming together and having high chances of birthing equally very ugly children! Perfectly sensible from utilitarian viewpoint.
Alas, what if the children are very ugly still?? Would it be better they stay around very ugly parents? Or is it better the PSed parents patiently explain the situation and give the kids certain hope they will look as good as the parents when they are mature enuff to go for PS? The answer is obvious.
I am just curious why people cannot see the beauty that is inherent in themselves. I am secure enough in my mind to know that the person who finds me interesting will find ME interesting and not find something else hidden inside. A persons insecurities will eventually show up no matter what you hid behind.
if u contd to come to this forum once a while will means that u didnt give it up yet subconciously.. well, give up resisting and join in the bandwagon to skin deep beauty. 
Now take that money and go out a buy that outfit you wanted and take a short holiday as well. You deserve it! 
phew! should sign off and even not signing in the forum anymore. May be, that is what the "forum" goes for. So I am out.