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Censorship

Postby Censorship » Fri, 12 Dec 2003 1:48 am

I urge the forum administration to remove this quote from jpatokal ASAP.
Further legal action should be taken against the
DELPHI FORUM and in particular the guy who posted this rubbish - it is an incitement to kill people.
I wonder that the authorities have not intervened yet.
Its disgraceful and dangerous.

Shocked!!!!!!!!!

Postby Shocked!!!!!!!!! » Fri, 12 Dec 2003 1:55 am

Beyond imagination what violent racism and hatred is published in the Delphi forum / Sammyboy.coms Alfresco against non-Singaporean. These people need to be prosecuted. These people argue along the lines of terrorists and the means to solve the problem of foreigners in Singapore include murder and rape. I can not believe this.

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jpatokal
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Postby jpatokal » Fri, 12 Dec 2003 8:43 am

You know you've been in Singapore too long when... your first instincts are to cry "Censor them!" and "Sue them!" :roll:

Anyway, note that
  • delphiforums is hosted in the US and Sing's laws don't apply
  • the forum's moderator, Sam Leong, was posting in that very same thread and isn't too enamored of FTs himself (although he isn't calling out for people to throw stones)
  • the site is a place for Singaporeans to let off steam anonymously
  • and most of the thread actually consists of people telling Ah Kow to take it easy


And here's a radical thought: post your own reply! I did, and it was funny (and surprising) to watch Ah Kow flip his coat when I pointed out that this particular FT is bringing in jobs and money.

randall

Postby randall » Fri, 12 Dec 2003 9:31 am

That rotten forum should be demolished.

frenchman

Postby frenchman » Fri, 12 Dec 2003 4:06 pm

I pitty that guy. Resorting to that sort of incitement and hatred against westeners and others is a shame. Maybe he lost his Girlfriend and his Job to a caucasian. But even this does not justify his doing. Guess he is mentally retarded or his intellectual capacity compares to ... (I leave it up to your imagination).
Not even the Brits hate us French that much hahahahahahahaha

ck

Postby ck » Sat, 13 Dec 2003 3:42 pm

Compliments to the singapore expats forum for having the guts not to censor this quote from the Delphi forum. Its disgusting, but after all its part of reality we have to live with, so whats the point to deny what other people think about us. Sure enough we are talking about a tiny tiny minority. But where was the outcry from the respondents in this forum?? If at all, critizisms from locals were rather mild (even understanding?). For many other Singaporeans I feel that Marc is quite right. They think along similar lines and would rather see us at home than earn our living in Spore (except SPGs). Some people certainly do try to voice their resentment in a hidden manner such as laughing / grinning etc etc...
We need better publicity in the papers to do away with the image many people have about us. Most Sporeans do not have extensive experience with caucs...so many of them still believe this rubbish of we are arrogant, we think we are something better, we are womanizer, we pick up all the local chicks, we take away their jobs etc etc etc. most of this cliches might have some reference in the past - but thats it.
With this sort of cliches I might behave in a similar way - how should Singaporean know better if they only can base their attitude towards us mainly on coffeshop talk/papers? The papers try to do the right thing, but they rather lecture than convince local people...again this rather fuels resentment than understanding and acknowledgement for the expat community.

zinedine

Postby zinedine » Sun, 14 Dec 2003 7:29 am

Bonjour Frenchman,

Once France has left the EU we gonna have a drink all right -to celebrate this historic occasion which will make the continent a better place hehe...

Marc make sure youve gotta great time down here in Spore - let those silly folks laugh or giggle about us - I cant be bothered. Life is too short to be concerned about that sort of bullshit. Anyway it doesnt make a difference at all, does it? As long as you know how to enjoy life.

Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers

frenchman

Postby frenchman » Sun, 14 Dec 2003 6:56 pm

Good day Zinedine, (obviously your an anglo-saxon with a preference for French names - youve got style) England is not part of the EU to my knowledge. Joking apart, I do agree what you advised Marc: Enjoy life and dont bother about those local people who are at pains to irritate you coz your an European or American. C'est la vie. Mix around with the right kind of people and youll be all right.
Hope all of you had a great weekend.

hoshiko

Postby hoshiko » Mon, 15 Dec 2003 2:08 am

some resentments against foreigner is all over the world. I I am from Tokyo and stayed in Holland for two years there was people too who give the impression that they dont like Japan people much. We must live with this. Even here in Singpore some people do not treat me so good as they do not like my nationality. they see that I am Asian but they also can see that I am from Japan. best is to be together with open minded people and ignore the other ones.

hok

Postby hok » Mon, 15 Dec 2003 5:39 pm

why should we Singaporean treat exats/foreigners in a better and different way than Singaporean are treated overseas? Thats an issue of double standards!

john koh

Postby john koh » Mon, 15 Dec 2003 8:52 pm

Expats are welcome to leave Singapore - if they wish! Otherwise do not complain! We behave the way we like whether you expats like it or not. Simple as that.

savoir

savoir vivre ensemble

Postby savoir » Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:33 pm

hello follow mate and frenchmen,
As what i wrote in the subject,knowing to live together. As what i noticed here is a bunch of hooligans trying to attack each other.

M. le français, c'est comme on dit, il faut s'adapter ou on s'in stalle. Egalement, les étrangéres chez vous ne sont pas non plus le bienvenue par les gens sur place. Donc, on apprends tous les jours, vivons heureux,vivons caché.

Follow mate,let close the matter,i know that foreigner are not always welcome on a foreign land but we should look at ourselves first ,before judging the others.

Thank you and @`plus

rocye

Postby rocye » Wed, 17 Dec 2003 4:58 pm

Good afternoon Savoir,

Quote ‘We should look at ourselves first before judging locals’. That’s right Savoir, though only part of the story. Constructive criticism (incl. self-criticism) is imperative as is empathy and the need for compromise, if the process of integration and harmonious co-existence is to succeed. That requires a critical exchange of views.
Seen in a context your quote implies indirectly not to judge/criticise at all locals, whether there has been a critical look at oneself or not. Now, that’s problematic though not obvious at first glance: :idea:

This extreme form of liberalism (see quote) towards Asians depicts a form of post colonial arrogance. It conveys the perception that westeners stand above Asians, treating them like children rather than Equals.
Asian people deserve the respect of being criticised, if applicable. How can you, as a westener, possibly claim to respect Asians and treat them as Equals, if you don’t dare to confront them with constructive criticism (could it be that you feel superior and thus don’t take Asians serious? Witholding criticism as a sign of greatness, generosity and superiority towards locals?). After all greatness all too often relates to selflessness does it not.

Asians have the brains and stamina to face criticism – lets stop treating them (unknowingly) as being inferior. They are up to the job. With reference to Marc’s issue - there is no denial that this phenomenon exists to some degree. I am a rather old man; but besides the fact that I am an observant type of person Ive come to hear similar stuff before from other expats. Personally I don’t find this issue relevant as I am old enough to realize that its impossible to be liked by everyone. However Marc, its good that you had the guts to bring up this issue; this specifically as other people consider it as rather uncomfortable to discuss and as a result try to turn it into a non-issue. I was distressed by some of the negative experiences from expats, which I read in this forum. I hope they change their mind and stay in Spore. I believe most of that kind of rensentment comes down to the insecurity and jealousy of some Singaporean towards expats. Once you understand this underlying relationship Marc you will smile about those Sporean and feel pity for them. Lastly, remember there are plenty of nice/confident Sporean out there as well. :)


!!

Savoir

Postby Savoir » Wed, 17 Dec 2003 7:12 pm

rocye,

Towards your comments,i would like to correct your phrase:

Quote ‘We should look at ourselves first before judging locals(rather others)’.
Also,for your information,i am NOT so called your ang moh....I am a 100% singaporean ,staying aboard...I know how this sentiment was felt by a singaporean and how i was treated in a foreign land,therefore without being disrespectful to you,please read and understand my contents on this forum,as debating is good as like what you stated as of "constructive criticism ".i called this as "provocative propoganda criticism" from my point of view.

Therefore,let's end this pointless debate which i,personally, find that endless criticism as well as non constructive phenomenon as stated on your comment.

Thank you and merry Christmas to everyone.

royce

Postby royce » Wed, 17 Dec 2003 9:04 pm

Hi Savoir,

Well, I presume you are an Asian who migrated to France then. I do denounce any kind of disrespectful behaviour directed to minorities/foreigners or people in general. This applies to westeners who are living abroad in the same way as Asians earning a living abroad (your case). I take from your response that you had similar negative experiences abroad as outlined by other expats in this forum. In the same way as expats in Spore have raised this issue you should come out and challenge the current status quo. Disrespectful behaviour remains completely unacceptable whether its directed to an Expat in Spore or an Asian in France.

Hey, you seem to have surrendenderd. The Apartheid system in South Africa, discrimination against black people in the US, Colonialism, inequality between men and women …all these unjust phenomenon, social structures and systmens would still be in place if people like Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Gandhi and others would have thought of it as ‘endless, pointless criticism and debates’ which of course they were in the very beginning. By comparison our underlying issue is rather a trivial one, then again it seems to affect people and thus deserves to be adddressed.

Fortunately the world has become a better place, but wherever there is unjustice or moral deficiencies (big or small) people should speak up and voice criticism.
You should understand that better than anyone else as you experienced this problem overseas. To make the world a better place we need make a strong commitment to life long learning which requires the process of questioning and criticising.

As outlined I personally don’t care much about this sort of resentment, but I feel people who do (obviously rather younger ones), should have a right to discuss that issue without being marked as blowing up a non-issue. Sounds reasonable does it not?
Have a great time in (France?) Savoir and all the best for you.

Merry Christmas to all Expats and Sporean. And A Happy New Year.
:wink:


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