Singaporeans and Caucasians

[sundaymorningstaple]

There's a local abbreviation for that I believe.....

[Quasimodo]

I would definitely date a caucasian guy if I have the chance. Sigh..

Why?

You
're kidding, right?

Obvious, innit?!


Twelve inches, mate . . .

. . . or was that 12 centimetres? I get confused at times.

[yll90]

Twelve inches, mate . . .

. . . or was that 12 centimetres? I get confused at times

Oh mine! 12 inches? That's bloody supersize lol! And trust me, size never cross my mind..not until you mentioned it. But I think the size thing is too overrated and superfical. Probably those who are in for some thrills might want to date caucasian guys just because of their "magnificent" part underneath. I'm not a big fan for thrills so you can strike out "the measurements" from the agenda. Now next please...

[jshin]

this topic is discussed ad nauseum on asian american forums. being a US raised asian and having been an ethnic studies minor in US, i know that the whole interracial relationship topic sparks some strong feelings on all sides.

if you look at it purely clinically, the fact is (particularly in caucasian majority cultures) the most common asian/caucasian interracial coupling is with a caucasian male and asian female. in the US the figures are staggering by several multiples. now, most people would agree that a color and gender unbiased society is the ideal, but in practice that is rarely, if ever, the case. and the statistical disparity can not be explained by personal preference alone. there is a greater social dynamic that marginalizes asian men below caucasian men and objectifies asian women as compared to caucasian women.

this is most true in media. when was the last time anyone recalls seeing a movie or tv series from anywhere in the world where an asian male protagonist is paired with an caucasian woman in a sexual relationship that is not based on prostitution other form of abuse? now, how often do you see the reverse? fact is, popular media likes to emasculate us - even asian media to some extent.

as a soon-to-be-freshly-minted expat to asia, i'm interested to see local take on this topic. so, carry on.

-jake

[nhrk]

sundaymorningstaple
Why?

Umm why would I want date a caucasian? Personally, I think that the liberty to choose might be the right answer for it. I don't want to be limit myself to date somebody of my own race or neither do I want to refrain myself to date someone from a particular race. I alway believe that there are no boundaries in building a relationship with someone who shares a different culture or ethnicity as you. It's only the fact that whether you allow it to happen or not and how well you can do to sustain a relationship with that someone.

And of course, somehow I find that caucasians are more alluring than asians. Don't ask me why cause I don't know myself either! But I started to have a fondness for them already since I was in nursery school! Weird huh?

I'm uncertain if I should be appalled or bemused with your statement. Frankly, I don't think you have an actual reason besides having placed a Caucasian man up a higher rung in your social hierarchy. Not that it's wrong, given one is always free to carry forth their own perception to action but I don't actually believe you're as rationale as you think you are. I recommend not justifying yourself any further. The colour of a man's skin doesn't make who he is. You can push forth cultural barriers without crossing a racial marker. A Taoist Chinese and a Protestant Chinese can have quite the oasis between them. Of course, the option is yours and there are white man everywhere really. But if you'd like my estrogen filled 2 cents worth, sometimes what's in your own backyard is what you should have always looked too first. How green the pastures on the other end are, could simply be a illusion of the prism. In my defence, I've dated Caucasians, Asians and Eurasians and I dare say each and every one of them were individuals with their own quirks, flaws and credits. None of which could be mapped to their skin colour but more so their environment and psyche.

Good luck though. (;

[sundaymorningstaple]

nhrk,

Very lucid post.

[ksl]

Ever since my first posting to Singapore in 1970, I felt some connection with the place, couldn't really place my finger on it, although at the back of my mind, I have always thought that maybe Asian culture is so much more meaningful in the sense of building bridges.

The philosophy of life holds no boundaries, only individuals!

The right to make up one's own mind is correct in my book, although complicated in untested waters, one is able to continue the journey, with any race, destiny is destiny although we can influence it by taking the right path.

To assume that the grass is greener on the other side, is a little too naive, although the calling may lie deep within, to make the first step out of the comfort zone, the freedoms of the west make it just, a little more less stable, with wants and needs based on sexual taste and individual egos, rather than family commitments.

Partnerships come and go for a great deal of westerners, because they succumb to the freedoms of life, without the baggage of taboos, which is not always a good thing, especially for families and children.

Some way I feel the western culture has/is destroying it's own culture, this is of course a natural phenomena of evolution, where roles in the world will change for super powers.

Maybe we could look at it has the urge for freedom, or even a fetish, the main point is to enjoy whatever you are experiencing, but consider the consequences of the leap to freedom, not just for you but also your children. Providing you meet a male with the same ideology that family comes first before individual ego's, then a commitment maybe worth while.

We are all attracted to each other for deeper reasons, than we realise, although how often do we analyze our thoughts.

It took me many years of isolation from family life, to understand, what i was really looking for, and it wasn't just a good night in the sack, but purpose, strength, endurance, and faith became my companions, rather than hopping from one relationship to another, of course I still sowed my wild oats, that is always a human need, but the emotional ups and downs of broken relationships, because of the freedom to do what we want, isn't my cup of tea, responsibility, to family comes first and my own wish is that my children can understand and respect life.

Rather than breeding children to hold a marriage together, the consequences are just not fair on children.

strangely enough my own wife, wanted to marry with a Caucasian, and when I asked why me...she replied you are 50 years old, and have been sowing your wild oats for the last 25 years, I guess it's time you settled down now, so you will not be straying.

My reply of course was, straight to the point, because i know women well, if i'm not satisfied sexually, i will end up cheating on you, so now you know, and to be honest most men will cheat if not satisfied. Those that do not cheat, do not have too.

The male that likes to brag of his conquests, doesn't really understand how naive and silly he appears, the macho man image is not a worldly image, but a local one.

Interesting thread

[Quasimodo]

Twelve inches, mate . . .

. . . or was that 12 centimetres? I get confused at times

Oh mine! 12 inches? That's bloody supersize lol! And trust me, size never cross my mind..not until you mentioned it. But I think the size thing is too overrated and superfical. Probably those who are in for some thrills might want to date caucasian guys just because of their "magnificent" part underneath. I'm not a big fan for thrills so you can strike out "the measurements" from the agenda. Now next please...

Methinks thou protest too much . . . My post, however, was tongue in cheek. (SMS has na excellent pic of that)

Having said that you can't argue that size is completely irrelevant, not just in relation to this thread . . . be it butts, boobs etc . . .

Anyway, it wasn't a serious post.

jshin wrote:

in the US the figures are staggering by several multiples. now, most people would agree that a color and gender unbiased society is the ideal, but in practice that is rarely, if ever, the case. and the statistical disparity can not be explained by personal preference alone. there is a greater social dynamic that marginalizes asian men below caucasian men and objectifies asian women as compared to caucasian women.

I fail to see where this 'social dynamic' stems from in this regard. No-one is forcing this disparity upon the female Asian, are they?! It is a matter of choice, her choice, many times against the wishes of the family, particularly if they are first generation migrants.

I would disagree with your general assertion and suggest that the Asian male should look at himself to see the reason why there is an inequality of mixed-race couples.

Having said that, my wife is of Chinese origin who held a higher position than I and in those terms certainly didn't aim to 'raise' her standard by marrying me, a Caucasian.

nhrk wrote

But if you'd like my estrogen filled 2 cents worth,

Excellent choice of words and a very good post.

[jshin]

jshin wrote:

in the US the figures are staggering by several multiples. now, most people would agree that a color and gender unbiased society is the ideal, but in practice that is rarely, if ever, the case. and the statistical disparity can not be explained by personal preference alone. there is a greater social dynamic that marginalizes asian men below caucasian men and objectifies asian women as compared to caucasian women.

I fail to see where this 'social dynamic' stems from in this regard. No-one is forcing this disparity upon the female Asian, are they?! It is a matter of choice, her choice, many times against the wishes of the family, particularly if they are first generation migrants.

I would disagree with your general assertion and suggest that the Asian male should look at himself to see the reason why there is an inequality of mixed-race couples.

Having said that, my wife is of Chinese origin who held a higher position than I and in those terms certainly didn't aim to 'raise' her standard by marrying me, a Caucasian.

perhaps you're thinking in terms of only the experience of your wife. i dated mostly caucasian women before getting married. i'm korean. so, i didn't really feel effects of racial/gender stereotypes. but saying each is a personal choice and only that is too simplistic.

when a systemic disparity occurs and is sustained in such large numbers to overwhelm likelihood random personal choices, there have to be other factors at play. is every asian woman who marries a caucasian man simply succumbing to emasculated stereotype of asian men? of course not. and i resent asian men who make such assertions - that's treating asian women as their property and is trading emasculation for misogyny. my sister is married to a caucasian and i happen to think that they are excellent together. and that she really found a good match for her values and temperament.

and social pressure certainly goes both ways. there is much more pressure on asian sons to marry within the 'race' than there is for asian daughters. so, there is quite a bit of affect from that as well. but when in certain groups, the young women marry caucasians at a rate that is 10x that of their men. you can't say, 'oh well, it was all just personal choices.' and assume social images had nothing to do with it.

and i defy you to name one popular media that has paired a leading asian male in a romantic role with a caucasian. even when a popular asian male is used: chow yung fat in replacement killers, he doesn't get the girl. jet lee in kiss of the dragon, no.

[ksl]

jshin wrote:

in the US the figures are staggering by several multiples. now, most people would agree that a color and gender unbiased society is the ideal, but in practice that is rarely, if ever, the case. and the statistical disparity can not be explained by personal preference alone. there is a greater social dynamic that marginalizes asian men below caucasian men and objectifies asian women as compared to caucasian women.

I fail to see where this 'social dynamic' stems from in this regard. No-one is forcing this disparity upon the female Asian, are they?! It is a matter of choice, her choice, many times against the wishes of the family, particularly if they are first generation migrants.

I would disagree with your general assertion and suggest that the Asian male should look at himself to see the reason why there is an inequality of mixed-race couples.

Having said that, my wife is of Chinese origin who held a higher position than I and in those terms certainly didn't aim to 'raise' her standard by marrying me, a Caucasian.

perhaps you're thinking in terms of only the experience of your wife. i dated mostly caucasian women before getting married. i'm korean. so, i didn't really feel effects of racial/gender stereotypes. but saying each is a personal choice and only that is too simplistic.

when a systemic disparity occurs and is sustained in such large numbers to overwhelm likelihood random personal choices, there have to be other factors at play. is every asian woman who marries a caucasian man simply succumbing to emasculated stereotype of asian men? of course not. and i resent asian men who make such assertions - that's treating asian women as their property and is trading emasculation for misogyny. my sister is married to a caucasian and i happen to think that they are excellent together. and that she really found a good match for her values and temperament.

and social pressure certainly goes both ways. there is much more pressure on asian sons to marry within the 'race' than there is for asian daughters. so, there is quite a bit of affect from that as well. but when in certain groups, the young women marry caucasians at a rate that is 10x that of their men. you can't say, 'oh well, it was all just personal choices.' and assume social images had nothing to do with it.

and i defy you to name one popular media that has paired a leading asian male in a romantic role with a caucasian. even when a popular asian male is used: chow yung fat in replacement killers, he doesn't get the girl. jet lee in kiss of the dragon, no.

Your points are valid, although we must also approach the issues from a logical point of view, women no matter what race or colour will always be wanted by men, on the other hand, a womans priority is not in the race or colour league but in basic survival, stability and last of all is probably freedom for her siblings, not necessarily herself, it's about evolution and why some are left behind and some are in front most women will not even realise it because the wants and needs maybe subconcious. Men may also have these sub concious thoughts too, but find them much harder to fulfil, because of confidence and the fact there is little demand for Asian men...but there is some, it's up to the men to help create the product that hey are offering, the more this is done, the more it becomes the norm.

High risks are sometimes worth taking, even for the media or movies, so no doubt one day, we will see the romance on screen with an Asian male and a western woman, the leading roles have to be well matched, to create the buzz, that sells tickets.

The cartwheel wheel of life is but a motion, and for western women to run after Asian men, in most cases would defeat the underlying survival instincts, of security, stability and freedom, in the eyes of the women of course, not the men.

That isn't to say that western women are less attracted by Asians, but women know what they want, and if they want an Asian, they will certainly go out and get one, it's very easy for them, and not easy for Asian men, to just go out and score, unless they have the experience and confidence to do it.

Many Asian men, are real gentlemen with emotional differences to western men, the culture being so very far apart is mostly to blame, taboos remain and most Asians are respectful to women, were westerners can tend to be more straight to the point, although I am not generalising, or pretending, but satisfying a relationship is not at all easy and if one has more experience than the other, then one also may experience a taste of what sexual pleasure is all about, to some it doesn't matter, to others it's a learning process that can only improve the quality of life, but one thing is for sure, that once you have had a taste, you do not forget, and would find it very frustrating to settle with a less experienced woman, you may marry the less experienced, but would cheat, and that's generally what happens.

Although you are speaking with Asian men and media in mind, and again, one must approach the issues from a point of business and commercial demand, wants and needs, so do the majority really wish to see Jet lee in a love scene with a western woman, will it sell, or will it confuse, of course it would be great if it was excepted on the same terms as western romance and Asian women, but it's unrealistic at this time, it doesn't sell......

To put it very crude, who is normally the star of a porn movie.....certainly not men, unless they have something to offer, then they can demand the most pay, and the women line up, otherwise its the women that demand the pay no matter what colour or race, and the men do it for free, well almost.

The same goes on in the fashion world, so yes it can be influenced by media, but who dare take the risk, when there is no demand.

I also believe that all countries have a degree of biased behaviour to racial marriages, it is after all a normal reaction, if it happens in an area of non mixed social areas and takes generations even in mixed areas, and there will always be the psychotic nutcase around that believes white power is supreme or black power is supreme, this is typical terrortorial behaviour of those that do not wish to conform to what should be a normal life style.

I know because i was raised in the same area as nutters, that think like this, very ignorant about life, culture and emotions. Those that care, really do care, that i can guarantee and I have mixed race relatives within my own family and we tend to stick up for eachother.

The colour of a man's skin doesn't make who he is. You can push forth cultural barriers without crossing a racial marker. A Taoist Chinese and a Protestant Chinese can have quite the oasis between them.

This is quite true, although NHRK I believe is talking about commercialised behaviour, and social demands so I see what she means, we see it all the time, barriers need breaking and everyone is scared to lose money doing it....But high risk pays off occassionally and i do not believe the majority would be biased of an Asian man in a romance scene with an Asian woman, although it would be a talking point for many of being unusual, the fact is money is at stake, and no one wants the risk.

It's only natural to want what we are attracted to, but we don't always get what we want. Taboos, and traditions play a role, men are required to follow the traditions and women are not as important to the family name... has males, so it wouldn't be such a good idea, to pair off the star of a film with a western woman, unless it was to shock and possibly offend the Asian society traditions.

[yll90]

Nhrk, somehow I was enlightened by your words. Perhaps I was constantly in denial and also too navie which deluded me into being dotty over caucasians. And I certainly agree with you that each and everyone of us are distinctive with our own quirks, flaws and credits like what you had said. Maybe I should reflect more on my thoughts and try to be more "rationale" as far as possible if not someone else might end up in the same situation as you.

[carteki]

Fascinating topic that is being discussed here. As a SWF living in Singapore I am fully aware of the "inequality" in the dating game (there are exceptions). Most of the white men I meet (and not just those that I have a romantic interest in) are only interested in Asian women as girlfriends and it is definitely the exception for an Asian guy to have a white girlfriend, so this is something that is close to my heart.

Guess I'll just have to be content with my singleness until I leave...

[Addadude]

Fascinating topic that is being discussed here. As a SWF living in Singapore I am fully aware of the "inequality" in the dating game (there are exceptions). Most of the white men I meet (and not just those that I have a romantic interest in) are only interested in Asian women as girlfriends and it is definitely the exception for an Asian guy to have a white girlfriend, so this is something that is close to my heart.

Guess I'll just have to be content with my singleness until I leave...

Growing up in Ireland, I dated Irish women. When I lived in London, my girlfriend was English. In over 15 years living here in Singapore, my girlfriends have all been local. I haven't deliberately gone out of my way to date Asian women exclusively - it's just the way the law of averages works.

It's a numbers game.

How many single white male expats are there here? How many single white female expats are there here? Clearly the former greatly outnumber the latter. If you are only targetting white expat males as potential partners, the odds are very much against you.

On the other hand, there are plenty of single local males to choose from. And I don't believe that they necessarily have major objections to dating caucasian females - in fact I have 2 local male colleagues who have English spouses.

So don't lose heart just yet!

[reisende]

Deleted

[Asian_Geekette]

if my guy were Asian,
I can dress in any camisole, tank-top, 'revealing' clothes without looking like a SPG, and would not get any funny stares from other locals, especially local (and some expat) girls. they are particularly hawkish, giving you the stare-down to assess whether I am 'legit'.

so I dress in tee-shirt and jeans when out with my (unfortunately) white boyfriend.

silly, yes, but with all honesty it is very exhausting when heading out anywhere crowded. of course I have grown a second skin many years ago, but it is always never thick enough.

I'm lucky that I look soooo geeky that even if I dress in a tank top and short skirt, people don't mistake me for Filipina Party Girl when I'm with my ang moh bf.

Though I did have a discussion with my bf about this. He said that if we were walking down Orchard Road and if I dressed too sexily, he would probably feel that people are eyeing him and wondering whether he just picked me up from the Orchard Towers. But I assured him it won't be the case because I exude that geeky charm.

There are definitely lots of cultural differences between us. And I had to be constantly aware of this. There are times he feels I'm too Americanized but I remind him that I'm still a child of the Eastern world. I'm just lucky that we found each other and despite the differences, there's enough common ground to make the relationship work.