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Singaporeans and Caucasians

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bastille
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Postby bastille » Wed, 15 Mar 2006 6:37 pm

Eric from the Netherlands wrote:If people get concerned over silly stereotyped nonsense about singaporeans versus caucasians when coming to Singapore, I do advise them better to stay home indeed.

And I did mean it, Marseille is a much nicer city than Singapore. It's my favorite big city in France, for sure. Beautiful place.

Eric


Hi Eric.im not worried about the place. Idont care whether its a ugly city or whatever. but if locals are making life hard for you in this way then i would rather forgo a few Dollars and stay in France.
Still wondering what all these other negative comments are all about?
Hope that some of the expats critical of the local mentality towards foreigners would advise me. lets see.
Seems that the Brithish in this forum still dont really could warm up their hearts for frenchmen? Haha. We are not that bad. Look at the big country bordering the north-east of france----

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Postby tiki » Wed, 15 Mar 2006 6:51 pm

Bastille my friend...

..basically it's pretty much the same everywhere only difference is on what level it occurs.

Locals of wherever they maybe, might feel a little insecure with the influx of foreigners, in fear perhaps of the lack of bacon to bring home.

But then again, you won't have to feel alienated or even ridiculed because amongst the locals, there are those wise enough and most importantly matured enough to understand.

No worries mate....

...like Eric said if one does worry about stereotyping and stuff, one might as well stay home.

France is a beautiful place and so is the UK ( plus Ireland )..

...but New Zealand will win the next rugby world cup :D
'If you feel alive
in a darkened room
Do you know the name
of your solitude..'

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Postby Carpe Diem » Wed, 15 Mar 2006 6:59 pm

Bastille, cela fait maintenant 4 ans que je vis ici et je n'ai jamais eu de problème avec les "locaux". Bien sûr des cons il y en a partout, mais je pense moins ici qu'en France... Il suffit d'avoir l'esprit suffisamment ouvert et d'être prêt à s'exposer à d'autres cultures (pas que la locale d'ailleurs) et à ce moment là c'est une super expérience.

Peu de gens regrettent de vivre ici. C'est une ville très agréable, où tout fonctionne et tout est à portée de main. Le seul problème est que l'on s'y sent parfois à l'étroit, mais les destinations à l'extérieur sont nombreuses...
La vie est trop courte, profitons de chaque instant

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Postby tiki » Wed, 15 Mar 2006 7:20 pm

True that CD...

It is a nice place and like CD, I too have never had any real major problems with the locals. You just have to have an open mind and be willing to learn....

..and perhaps it's true maybe there are lesser well 'idiots' for a lack of better word here than in France but all in all, it is an experience to savour.
'If you feel alive

in a darkened room

Do you know the name

of your solitude..'

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Re: Singaporeans and Caucasians

Postby tunafish » Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:38 pm

Hi Marc,

I am Singaporean, and spent time in the UK.

IMHO, the locals in Singapore are generally an alright bunch. It's a cosmopolitan city.

I'd be blatant about it. In London, I encountered people on the street (quite a number of times) who made faces at me, purposely slit their eyes, and call me chink, chinese pig, etc. I once encountered a bunch of guys who tailed me.

I get people ASKING me if Singapore's a part of China! I also encountered people who praised me for speaking English cos they thought Singapore's some third world country. Wow, like they speak great Cockney English....And we are talking about a cosmopolitan place like London!

In Paris (ah..yet another CosmoPolitan place to be), I think they have to work a lot on their manners. Perhaps, starting to speak English will be nice.

Well, I don't think caucasians quite get this special treatment in Singapore. Being called "ang moh" is definitely not derogatory.


So what's your worries, Marc?


marc wrote:welcome to everybody,

lots of friends reinforced my impression that an increasing number of Singaporean
try to make you feel uncomfortable in the
public by laughing once they see a
caucasian. They try hard to irritate you whenever possible...
Is that a false perception or did you make similar experiences?

bastille
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Re: Singaporeans and Caucasians

Postby bastille » Thu, 16 Mar 2006 3:23 am

[quote="tunafish"]Hi Marc,

I am Singaporean, and spent time in the UK.

IMHO, the locals in Singapore are generally an alright bunch. It's a cosmopolitan city.

I'd be blatant about it. In London, I encountered people on the street (quite a number of times) who made faces at me, purposely slit their eyes, and call me chink, chinese pig, etc. I once encountered a bunch of guys who tailed me.

I get people ASKING me if Singapore's a part of China! I also encountered people who praised me for speaking English cos they thought Singapore's some third world country. Wow, like they speak great Cockney English....And we are talking about a cosmopolitan place like London!

In Paris (ah..yet another CosmoPolitan place to be), I think they have to work a lot on their manners. Perhaps, starting to speak English will be nice.

Well, I don't think caucasians quite get this special treatment in Singapore. Being called "ang moh" is definitely not derogatory.

Sorry to hear that. well interesting I never thought about it so far as I always stayed in France. What you are voicing is however no excuse. To justify maltreatement by pointing to others who do the same shit. I am ashamed and sorry for what you experienced abroad. Its shameful. And though all other respondents advised me to go ahead, i think you helped me to finalize my decison. Thanks to all other expats in the Forum for the advice and concern. Merci bien a tous.

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Postby Wham » Thu, 16 Mar 2006 2:51 pm

Bastille, every man should be an ex-pat at some point in his life if only to get to know himself and his own country better. In fact, I think i understand my own country (the US) more from having lived abroad than i ever would have if i had stayed at home - and of course the same goes for knowing oneself in a very similar way. Living abroad forces you to re-examine many many aspects of yourself and your life in a wonderful way.

As for locals and likes and dislikes, i think it is human nature to be slightly xenophobic - and Singapore has this to a very small degree - but is generally a warm and welcoming place (more so than MANY other places i have been) with many expats - of a fun loving extrovert sort - living life to its fullest.

On the other hand - it is also in human nature to find all sorts of wonderfull little things to bitch and moan about - even if overall it is a wonderfull place - and of course these pages are full of that - but much of it is tongue in cheek.

Bon Chance!
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." Samuel Johnson

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Re: Singaporeans and Caucasians

Postby MobyDog » Thu, 16 Mar 2006 4:43 pm

[quote="bastille
Sorry to hear that. well interesting I never thought about it so far as I always stayed in France. What you are voicing is however no excuse. To justify maltreatement by pointing to others who do the same shit. I am ashamed and sorry for what you experienced abroad. Its shameful. And though all other respondents advised me to go ahead, i think you helped me to finalize my decison. Thanks to all other expats in the Forum for the advice and concern. Merci bien a tous.[/quote]

Hi, Bastille.

The problem I see here here is that, in the first place, mentally you already have a bias stand. I suspect you have never had lived as a minority in any society to know the things they are subected to - to a point that they have to just live with it.

What "tunafish' is trying to get across is - In Singapore, you are less likely to be subjected to blatant rude racial remarks than if you were a minority back home and only a minority would understand.

I agree with Eric here, if you already had development such mindset, you would be very sensitive and suspicious to anything around you here, to some point, any incidents that happens around you - would be equated to some racial implications... Then you would not be happy here, thus just stay home.

I'm sure if some Japanese girls were to giggles at you... likely you would not see this as rude ... but a chance. Because in Japan, giggling is also common -- and as I said --- is a culture.

Honestly, I only see certain situations when you will encounter giggles in Singapore. This are not rude actions and is not common.. mostly likely just curious kids who have not associated with Caucasian often. I have explained that raesons in my earlier post.

RUDE is giving you disgusting, scorn and monkey faces, which is common occurance in the West, and not likely here in Singapore.

Expats Forumite - please give incidence of such actions you encounter here. Have you ever been called "pigs", "chinks", "where is your tail" and giving you monkey faces.. Honestly, the term "Ang mo" means "Red Hair" and that is a old Chinese description, while "White Ghost" term is seldom used here, which originate from the Colonial times where we suffered humiliations and slave... can you blame them ?

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tiki
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Postby tiki » Thu, 16 Mar 2006 4:59 pm

In my interaction with the locals I found out that even within their own race, there exist a certain level of discrimination.

For example, the mindset of a certain dialect group wanting to ONLY marry into their own. This may seem to be an old mindset and even though it's not a huge discrimination but it still is. I'm talking about race and NOT religion here.

As far as having 'historical emotional baggage' is concerned...

..I think it all boils down to maturity. My people did go through some hard times when the pakehas came but I do not go around slitting their throats nor raping their women.

We may still live in a potentially explosive world and even though it's not quite like the 'Black Panthers' days, nonetheless we should always be culturally sensitive and aware.

To sum it all up...

..you want respect...

..you give some.
'If you feel alive

in a darkened room

Do you know the name

of your solitude..'

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Postby MobyDog » Thu, 16 Mar 2006 5:43 pm

tiki wrote:In my interaction with the locals I found out that even within their own race, there exist a certain level of discrimination.

For example, the mindset of a certain dialect group wanting to ONLY marry into their own. This may seem to be an old mindset and even though it's not a huge discrimination but it still is. I'm talking about race and NOT religion here.
Well, I am one of them, and it's not a discrimination, and that's not fair a comprison to make, but an ethnic root reason.

For examples - French and the English are of caucasian line, but won't a French likely marry a French of equal qualification than to a English.. They speak their langauges, common in their culture.. etc.

Within the Chinese community in Sinagpore they have 4 distinct dialects group, and two of dialect groups have their sub language. While all can communicate in mandarin and most are bilingual... wouldn't it good marry someone who speaks that same dialect with you ? they can also interact with grandparents. While dialects is not a major or important aspect in marriages these days.

Speaking your own mothertougue with your spouse do improve relationships, because it do bring mature bonding.

I have a few GF from different dialects and some of them could only speaks their own dialects or none at all. So either, engish and mandarin is the only language medium I could use, though not a problem. But when they meet my grandparents - few subjects can be brought up in conversations.

When I had a GF who speaks my dialect, things changed, we were able communicate more emotionally, more naturally and relationship with my parents and grandparents are great from the first day. Speaking your own mothertougue has more mutual bonding aspect..

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tiki
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Postby tiki » Thu, 16 Mar 2006 5:56 pm

I agree.

But seriously think about it...

..a would like to and a have to are two totally different things.

I know plenty of folks who would not mind being married into the same dialect group but somehow ended up having to marry into instead.
'If you feel alive

in a darkened room

Do you know the name

of your solitude..'

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Postby MobyDog » Thu, 16 Mar 2006 6:09 pm

For examples - French and the English are of caucasian line, but won't a French likely marry a French of equal qualification than to a English.. They speak their langauges, common in their culture.. etc.


Sorry, the above example might be mis-intrepreted.. so I would like to refine it more in terms to the subject matter.

Let's say English and Geman Caucasian met in Italy. Both were unable to speak one another's language, but could communicate only in Italian. So, err.. just imagine your relationship along this line would be ... it's a give and take kind of scenario to make this relationsip work.. of course they are in love. Then think of their parents and grandparents - wouldn't there be a minor ..errr.... situation ?

Thanks.

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tiki
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Postby tiki » Thu, 16 Mar 2006 6:20 pm

Yes indeed..

..it's been a pleasure exchanging thoughts with you my friend :)
'If you feel alive

in a darkened room

Do you know the name

of your solitude..'

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Postby dot dot dot » Thu, 16 Mar 2006 6:20 pm

Carpe Diem wrote: Bien sûr des cons il y en a partout


You coward.... ciriticising the locals in French... :wink:

Carpe Diem wrote:Le seul problème est que l'on s'y sent parfois à l'étroit, mais les destinations à l'extérieur sont nombreuses...


Et à l'intérieur aussi! Oosters.... :P

Eric

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Postby dot dot dot » Thu, 16 Mar 2006 6:23 pm

tiki wrote:To sum it all up...

..you want respect...

..you give some.


Agree Tiki.

So stop sticking out your tongue when we meet, ok? :wink:

Eric


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