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lukas
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daily

Postby lukas » Sun, 18 Dec 2005 6:25 pm

kennyboy wrote:This is a rather serious issue and as a Singaporean I find it wrong to just ignore this matter.
Just to get an idea of the perceived scale: Is this systematic grinning/laughing at westeners
a rather daily phenomenon or is it only once in a blue moon?


Hi Kennyboy: im studying here at an International School in singapore. Im afraid to say its a daily thing. my buddies are fed up with it. Im fed up with it.
You cant spent a f day on orchard or tampines mall without this bloody grinning or laughing from locals; its d f annoying. we are aware of cultural differences and the fact that we are in a foreign country. what excuse is that: u are in a foreign country so dont judge locals if they laugh at u? we respect them, so should they? isnt it? im looking forward to leave with my family in 1 and a half years. it seems that you have to be a grumpy old man here to be spared this sh... guess they are not daring enough. its easier to target youngster right?
Thanks for your concern anyway.

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Postby Global Citizen » Sun, 18 Dec 2005 6:26 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
Global Citizen wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:

Maybe you along with some others just feel that you can get away with it here and not back home.
I think it's perceived superiority on your part even if it is subconscious.


Possibly, but I was always known as 'Schnauze'. I don't think superiority has anything to do with it, I would hate to think that I harbour that trait, possibly a matter of getting older. Valuing my personal space, which is more difficult here than at home and generally not appreciating people's idiosyncracies like I used to.


Schnauze as in nose? Sorry this went over my head.
One man's meat is another's poison.

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Postby Vaucluse » Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:18 pm

:lol: Schnauze is a colloquial term for mouth.

You're looking for Nase.

What I meant was that maybe I'm simply not as tolerant as I used to be.
......................................................

'nuff said Image

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Re: curmudgeon

Postby Vaucluse » Mon, 19 Dec 2005 1:15 am

Wham wrote:Vaucluse - Try on "Curmudgeon" and see how it fits. Mrs Wham likes to call me a "psycho" - but of course that just gets me all excited. I personally enjoy "crack pot" and the more common - but effective - "grumpy old man."
Enjoy, Wham


You're thinking of the tongue again, aren't you?!
......................................................



'nuff said Image

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Postby Wham » Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:07 am

Lukas, well i learned something new today... I did not realize that this "bloody grinning or laughing from locals" was something so prevalent with the young people. I suppose that kids can be mean and cruel everywhere and Singapore is no exception. I do not know how old you are etc. so it is difficult to offer any productive advice, but try and look at the bright side - i am sure that you are living a much more culturally interesting life than your friends back at home.

Also, maybe you can enjoy one thing - realistically, the local kids engaging in this type of immature behavior are acting way below their age. Their immaturity will stunt their intellectual development. Rise above it knowing that THEY are the fools. OH, and if it makes any difference - most young ladies probably think they are fools also...
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." Samuel Johnson

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Postby lukas » Mon, 19 Dec 2005 7:51 pm

Wham wrote:Lukas, well i learned something new today... I did not realize that this "bloody grinning or laughing from locals" was something so prevalent with the young people. I suppose that kids can be mean and cruel everywhere and Singapore is no exception. I do not know how old you are etc. so it is difficult to offer any productive advice, but try and look at the bright side - i am sure that you are living a much more culturally interesting life than your friends back at home.

Also, maybe you can enjoy one thing - realistically, the local kids engaging in this type of immature behavior are acting way below their age. Their immaturity will stunt their intellectual development. Rise above it knowing that THEY are the fools. OH, and if it makes any difference - most young ladies probably think they are fools also...


Thanx for your advise WHAM...
Youre right. but its easier said than done. in a group its still ok coz u can backfire. but being so frequently confronted with that sh** while walking along orchard with my girlfriend is horrible. Once they spot you they grin and talk in local dialect and start laughing - age is not the issue. There people or couples around their 30 - 40s. Hell they could be my parents!!!The only relieve is that all of my friends get it (short, tall, ugly, handsome or whatever). i appreciate your concern. Merry Christmas to the expat community.

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Postby jksg » Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:01 pm

Singaporean are quite cheerful.yes a bit inmuture at times but they love to laugh and all these stuff.so maybe westeners sometimes misinterpret this type of behaviour. Dont take it personal :) :D

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nonsense

Postby irvinghenson » Thu, 19 Jan 2006 1:25 am

I'm gonna summarize all of this in 2 words. Nobody cares. Wether you are black, white, brown, yellow, purple or green. Singaporeans are not like that. Think you are being a little sensitive.
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Postby wardest » Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:00 pm

What to do lah

I have only been here a few short months. I am yet to see this giggling yet and perhaps I don't notice. I do notice the local chinese refuse to change path when walking on a crowded foot path and walk into me and I will never understand the reason for walking into someone 30 kgs heavier than you.
It was very much the same in Shanghai,
My solution is to wear sun glasses, Caucs tend to lead with their eyes to indicate which shoulder they are going to pass the oncoming pedestrian on. Seems to be if a local sees this it is interpreted as that you are going to completely give way and go around. With sun glasses on keep your head straight walk tall no drama.

Another experience I wish to relay.
As a Bondi resident I used to see english tourists whom were disrespectful of the local environment, culture and local laws, because of these ignorant minority I would apply my loathing to anyone with english accent. ( Sorry to the poms reading but imagine the aussies in covent garden for an example of the type of behaviour )
As a new resident here in Singapore I have heard quite a few stories of ill mannered badly behaved Australians blazing a trail before me so I cannot hold it against the locals if they tar me with the same brush I can only make sure I behave in a manner accordingly.

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Postby Wham » Mon, 23 Jan 2006 1:14 pm

Nice idea re sunglasses.
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." Samuel Johnson

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Postby MobyDog » Tue, 24 Jan 2006 6:12 am

Hi, all

Gone thru this tread, I like to comments all most issues. I would like to focus on Caucasians expats.. not asian. (not a racist thingy but rather it's broadness of issues)

Several issues I picked in this tread are laughings/giggles, rudeness and racism bear most of the discontent while some posters don't. Where everyone would agree that racism occurs around the world - depending on history and whether you are a minority and majority, media/political propagandas or simply upbringing.

Singapore is not perfect, but you need to understand the local culture first. What seems rude and racist to you may not be for the local. In the first instance, you have to see yourself then judge others.

Laughing/giggles,

In what situation do you define being laughed at ? Is it the way you dress ? Outlook ? Different ?

Now you must understand that most teens grew up among asians, and have never associated with Caucasians before. I myself are guilty of this.. but giggling not laughing( may have seen as such ), but I was young and curious. Yes, It is rude... but have you consider the situation. Imagine I was chatting with my group of friends and suddenly saw a (Ang MO) in this place. What came into my mind was " Ah, they also know how to come here.. Ah" giggles, some to the extent of laughter, becuase of group mentality. It's simply of innocence. Also most Sg do not know how to react to something foreign or not expected, and simply laughed.. whats the problem... that's the culture.

Also, maybe it just the sensitivity of foreigners. I worked in a few companies which has some caucasians.. and I must say they are really sensitive. I was chatting heartedly with other colleagues, when one of them walked in. Immediately, our attention focus on him while still chatting, I smile and turned aroung and gave a innocent laugh.. just a habit really, common with many sg. We con't chatting with laughs and gigs in Cantonese. Suddenly, he just stood up and confronted us with an angry tone and simply walked off. See what I mean, and this happen regularly. We usually used english if another party are of other race are involved, but we are at a midst of a conversation. It also happened in another company at the factory floor, this time a Italian, who spoiling for a fight. Each time, it was they who walked in and not involve with the chat... just misunderstandings.

Rudeness,

This is subjective issue. There are people who are just plain rude to whoever it may be. Sometimes caucasians have to look at themselves first. I have met foreigners who gave such distasteful and scorn looks that will receive inkind from me. Why should I be friendly with him ?

Other times, there are some who gives air of superiority.. this is common. I have a manageress from another department once who hate everything about asians, rude, show her distaste frequently and has that look err... I can say pure hatre. Her poor sg clerks were abused and over worked. The Manageress often disappear and only appear at meetings and datelines which she would throw it to them to rot, and her secretary would cover her ass waay too often. And amazingly the boss would take foreigners opinions over locals.. I mean seriously... locals worked like cows and with no recognitions. But I admit foreigners are articulate, and can talk their way out, because the boss look up to them even thought they don't work as hard. Mostly in adminstrative environment. Sorry, just generalising and I'm sure not all companies are like that. Some expat positions are tough like financial and engineering sectors are quite the exceptions.

Do you know that many locals, especially chinese, consider looking into a stranger's eyes is rude.. and might equates to a stare. Such incidents have often end in a fight. That's why some people would just walk avioding eye contacts. That's where all the bumps may have been resulted from. Observing people on the streets are ok, just don't look too intensely in the face area. I would apologise regardless whose fault it may be. I myself have been shoulded by afew times by foreigners too.. it was a delibrate act, they would check you out and simply walk away. The door swings both ways.

lukas wrote

Hi Kennyboy: im studying here at an International School in singapore. Im afraid to say its a daily thing. my buddies are fed up with it. Im fed up with it.
You cant spent a f day on orchard or tampines mall without this bloody grinning or laughing from locals; its d f annoying. we are aware of cultural differences and the fact that we are in a foreign country. what excuse is that: u are in a foreign country so dont judge locals if they laugh at u? we respect them, so should they? isnt it? im looking forward to leave with my family in 1 and a half years. it seems that you have to be a grumpy old man here to be spared this sh... guess they are not daring enough. its easier to target youngster right?
Have you consider your own outlook behavior ? How do you protray yourself ?

I am a police reservist who has patrolled Orchard rd every year. I can attest to the behavior and superiority facial language on many young foreigner in International Schools. And had a few run-ins with them. I have group of american teens who snatch a taxi - right next to Taxi Queue, right infront of Centrepoint. The Taxi driver did not want to take them, and they kicked up a hell of a fuss. I went up.. asked them to stand aside and ask the driver to con't up the Taxi Kiosk. I turned to them and directed them to the long taxi queue, and shower me their international swearing skills. The Irony is.. they even brought up human rights :o .. their rights over all the other people in the queue, which include foreigners.. WTF. I had the super urge to arrest them had not been a foreign tourist who ask them to leave.

It may be true that that some local deliquence do grin at them. Because of Jeslousy, because they view you as rich and spoilt... that's the common traits. Not proud of this, but a fact i don't deny... it is wrong. But have you look at the way some International students are behaving. Yes, nothing wrong with outgoing and carefree, but they are like in the world of their own as if they own the place. Asian are still very conservative. Again i'm just generalising. Many are not like that, it just maybe.. just maybe.. you are too focus on negativety and sensitive that's why it's so common occurence to you.. as of other issues as discuss.

Conclusion, If you looked hard enough, you will see what you expect to see. it's the same the world over. Some posters experience negativety what other posters don't. It takes many to make the world round. So, lighten up and enjoy your stay.

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Postby Leunig » Thu, 02 Feb 2006 3:05 pm

New to the Board but not to Singapore...still see more rudeness and arrogance displayed by my fellow expats than by the local population. Disappointing and upsetting as we are guests in this country.

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Postby Wham » Fri, 03 Feb 2006 3:08 pm

Leunig, I agree some of all races need to learn more courtesy - but would say there are good and bad in all races. However, regarding the guest label - i really do disagree in that tourists are guests. I am a tax paying permit holding foreign worker. I say this becasue the whole "guest" label subverts the issue of living and working together. I don't want someone to think they have to treat me like a guest - and i don't want to feel like a guest in a country where i pay lots of tax dollars but don't use many of the services like schools and health care.
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." Samuel Johnson

jksg
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Postby jksg » Fri, 10 Feb 2006 2:45 am

MobyDog wrote:Hi, all

Gone thru this tread, I like to comments all most issues. I would like to focus on Caucasians expats.. not asian. (not a racist thingy but rather it's broadness of issues)

Several issues I picked in this tread are laughings/giggles, rudeness and racism bear most of the discontent while some posters don't. Where everyone would agree that racism occurs around the world - depending on history and whether you are a minority and majority, media/political propagandas or simply upbringing.

Singapore is not perfect, but you need to understand the local culture first. What seems rude and racist to you may not be for the local. In the first instance, you have to see yourself then judge others.

Laughing/giggles,

In what situation do you define being laughed at ? Is it the way you dress ? Outlook ? Different ?

Now you must understand that most teens grew up among asians, and have never associated with Caucasians before. I myself are guilty of this.. but giggling not laughing( may have seen as such ), but I was young and curious. Yes, It is rude... but have you consider the situation. Imagine I was chatting with my group of friends and suddenly saw a (Ang MO) in this place. What came into my mind was " Ah, they also know how to come here.. Ah" giggles, some to the extent of laughter, becuase of group mentality. It's simply of innocence. Also most Sg do not know how to react to something foreign or not expected, and simply laughed.. whats the problem... that's the culture.

Also, maybe it just the sensitivity of foreigners. I worked in a few companies which has some caucasians.. and I must say they are really sensitive. I was chatting heartedly with other colleagues, when one of them walked in. Immediately, our attention focus on him while still chatting, I smile and turned aroung and gave a innocent laugh.. just a habit really, common with many sg. We con't chatting with laughs and gigs in Cantonese. Suddenly, he just stood up and confronted us with an angry tone and simply walked off. See what I mean, and this happen regularly. We usually used english if another party are of other race are involved, but we are at a midst of a conversation. It also happened in another company at the factory floor, this time a Italian, who spoiling for a fight. Each time, it was they who walked in and not involve with the chat... just misunderstandings.

Rudeness,

This is subjective issue. There are people who are just plain rude to whoever it may be. Sometimes caucasians have to look at themselves first. I have met foreigners who gave such distasteful and scorn looks that will receive inkind from me. Why should I be friendly with him ?

Other times, there are some who gives air of superiority.. this is common. I have a manageress from another department once who hate everything about asians, rude, show her distaste frequently and has that look err... I can say pure hatre. Her poor sg clerks were abused and over worked. The Manageress often disappear and only appear at meetings and datelines which she would throw it to them to rot, and her secretary would cover her ass waay too often. And amazingly the boss would take foreigners opinions over locals.. I mean seriously... locals worked like cows and with no recognitions. But I admit foreigners are articulate, and can talk their way out, because the boss look up to them even thought they don't work as hard. Mostly in adminstrative environment. Sorry, just generalising and I'm sure not all companies are like that. Some expat positions are tough like financial and engineering sectors are quite the exceptions.

Do you know that many locals, especially chinese, consider looking into a stranger's eyes is rude.. and might equates to a stare. Such incidents have often end in a fight. That's why some people would just walk avioding eye contacts. That's where all the bumps may have been resulted from. Observing people on the streets are ok, just don't look too intensely in the face area. I would apologise regardless whose fault it may be. I myself have been shoulded by afew times by foreigners too.. it was a delibrate act, they would check you out and simply walk away. The door swings both ways.

lukas wrote

Hi Kennyboy: im studying here at an International School in singapore. Im afraid to say its a daily thing. my buddies are fed up with it. Im fed up with it.
You cant spent a f day on orchard or tampines mall without this bloody grinning or laughing from locals; its d f annoying. we are aware of cultural differences and the fact that we are in a foreign country. what excuse is that: u are in a foreign country so dont judge locals if they laugh at u? we respect them, so should they? isnt it? im looking forward to leave with my family in 1 and a half years. it seems that you have to be a grumpy old man here to be spared this sh... guess they are not daring enough. its easier to target youngster right?
Have you consider your own outlook behavior ? How do you protray yourself ?

I am a police reservist who has patrolled Orchard rd every year. I can attest to the behavior and superiority facial language on many young foreigner in International Schools. And had a few run-ins with them. I have group of american teens who snatch a taxi - right next to Taxi Queue, right infront of Centrepoint. The Taxi driver did not want to take them, and they kicked up a hell of a fuss. I went up.. asked them to stand aside and ask the driver to con't up the Taxi Kiosk. I turned to them and directed them to the long taxi queue, and shower me their international swearing skills. The Irony is.. they even brought up human rights :o .. their rights over all the other people in the queue, which include foreigners.. WTF. I had the super urge to arrest them had not been a foreign tourist who ask them to leave.

It may be true that that some local deliquence do grin at them. Because of Jeslousy, because they view you as rich and spoilt... that's the common traits. Not proud of this, but a fact i don't deny... it is wrong. But have you look at the way some International students are behaving. Yes, nothing wrong with outgoing and carefree, but they are like in the world of their own as if they own the place. Asian are still very conservative. Again i'm just generalising. Many are not like that, it just maybe.. just maybe.. you are too focus on negativety and sensitive that's why it's so common occurence to you.. as of other issues as discuss.

Conclusion, If you looked hard enough, you will see what you expect to see. it's the same the world over. Some posters experience negativety what other posters don't. It takes many to make the world round. So, lighten up and enjoy your stay.
.


Hope you guys dont mind coz I am a bit drunk. Moby, your seem to be one of the few upright guys here. I guess things come quitel close to your point of view.
Shit need to wake up in a couple of hours. Work, Work, Work what else to do then laugh about s****** caucs. Yeah maybe were jealous of you. Goody nighty to all of youy. :???: only good thing about the west is CARLSBERGGGGGGGGGGG.

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Postby jksg » Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:32 pm

Hope you guys dont mind coz I am a bit drunk. Moby, your seem to be one of the few upright guys here. I guess things come quitel close to your point of view.
Shit need to wake up in a couple of hours. Work, Work, Work what else to do then laugh about s****** caucs. Yeah maybe were jealous of you. Goody nighty to all of youy. :???: only good thing about the west is CARLSBERGGGGGGGGGGG.[/quote]

-- IN VINO VERITAS ??-- :)


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