Singapore Expats Forum

Singaporeans and Caucasians

Discuss about life in Singapore. Ask about cost of living, housing, travel, etiquette & lifestyle. Share experience & advice with Singaporeans & expat staying in Singapore.

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Morticia
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Postby Morticia » Sat, 28 May 2005 12:10 am

From my standpoint...its Is getting worse..been here over three years and these occurances are becoming MORe frequent. Its irritating and disrespectful. Recenlty if I catch myself even considering being offended I simply walk over and ask what all the hype is about... Of course more hillarity ensues...and I find it therepuetic to laugh at myself once and a while. More than the "mystery laughs", the "Welcome to Singapore"s from young locals tends to grate on me. I mean, where wer they when I was all alone and new here??? I could have used the warm welcome then!!! :wink:
Anywhere but straight.

Guest

Postby Guest » Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:20 am

Hey thats sports over here! Accept it or leave.

Guest

Postby Guest » Tue, 14 Jun 2005 3:39 pm

If you keep encountering the same problem, please look into yourself.

It could be that you are too self-conscious when in a foreign country.

There are other foreigners who enjoy their stay here.

There is no end to this issue. It is better that you put down your guard a little bit, and make a little mistake as you go along with your daily life. Singapore is not a terrible place to live in. The people here are more neutral towards foreigners, unlike other places.

Morticia
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Postby Morticia » Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:01 pm

Never said I didnt like it here...in fact I absolutely love it here. Obviously it isnt just ME being paranoid, which is why I posted to this thread. Anyway, who cares. I am freinds with more locals than expats anyway and they always seem entertained.... tee hee
Anywhere but straight.

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madwolfie
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Postby madwolfie » Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:43 pm

Like your nick/name... Morticia. Is that Morticia in The Addams Family? *curious* :lol:

Standuplocals

Foreign & Practise Cronyism

Postby Standuplocals » Fri, 17 Jun 2005 3:25 pm

Totallly agree with you Nicole on cronyism in employment pracitice by expats in some MNC here as experienced by you. And it is also noted by confusedcious in thier other site.


"" Is The FT policy flawed ? Previously the FTs are top-notched senior managers with all the expat perks, but are all worth the compensations as they occupied top jobs and really added value. The last 10 years have seen an avalanche of foreigners, some middle managers and some barely qualifying for employment passes for jobs which local can do."

And to top it all these lower ranking FT pracitise cronyism, employing more of thier own kind depriving of S'poreans of even more jobs ??

<< Nicole L. wrote ( pg 23):
<< I read this thread with great amusement. I am a Singaporean currently doing my Masters in Australia, and I must say, the racism is pretty deep. I'm not only talking about Australia, but also from other countries. I am currently in a very cosmopolitan flat- my flatmates hail from Canada, USA, Malaysia, Singapore, China, Hongkong and Australia, of course.

We were talking about expatriates the other day and I think I figured out the reason why locals in any country feel a sort of resentment towards the expatriates. We do not hate you as an individual- we hate the system that pervades the Asian country where expatriates are a common sight and predominantly white. My friend who lives his whole life in Hongkong talks about the tiny expatriate community that existed there which is so closed up and unopened to the locals. He belongs to an expatriate family and even though he's been there for ten years, he doesn't know any Cantonese nor have any locals as friends, unless of course they were rich enough to squeeze into the expatriate neat little elitist society. Business deals, he observes, were often given to any companies who puts up some kind of British flag or icon in their company's logo or name. Cronyism, it seems, is not just an Asian thing.

I also felt a similar kind of injustice when I am in Singapore. I see my friends who are extremely capable, creative and innovative having their jobs or promotion stolen from them just because the company felt that the stereotype of "a White is always better" to be true. The anger we have is not directed against the individual, but against this nonsensical and illogical put down of local talents who already have much compeition to face anyway. Not only that, in my previous workplace, I have witnessed blatant cronyism. I was in the human resource department so I knew about an incident whereby a manager, who's an expat, gives preferential treatment to people from his own country among the job candidates. I have also met many expatriates who look upon the locals like we are children, needing to be told what to do etc. etc, being high and mighty about their own culture. The only claim they can lay on being "multi-cultural" is that they like chicken rice.

All I want to say is that I wish the mentality will change soon- that this inferiority complex which is so needless disappear in the new generation of Singaporeans. I think that it's time that Singaporeans figure out for themselves that they are just as good as an IT expert from Delhi or some manager from USA. Yet, if the expatirates are here, welcome them and respect them. Help them appreciate our culture as much as we can. One note to fellow Singaporeans though, especially shop owners- do not look down on your fellowmen. I have seen in many occasions, and this disgust me, that shopkeepers are rude to locals but extremely friendly to anyone who appears White.


On the other hand, I also wish that expats who come to Singapore have an open mind about the country- you are our guests but do not stretch our patience. I have good friends who are caucasians and they may one day be expats in Singapore. I always give them this advice- Be open minded and do not ever place your culture above ours because we are all on equal standing.

I believe there's another side to the story but i can't honestly say that my experiences with expatriates are good. If I have one, I will definitely in future voice it out here. I'm a Singaporean and in my own country, I do want the top leadership positions in any field-science, business, politics (a defacto category, duh!), etc. to be headed by Singaporeans, not foreigners. This may be uncosmopolitan of me but I believe a country should look after its own people first and foremost and we are not a stupid nation. Australia does it- it protects its own citizens first when it comes to jobs. But it can hardly be accused of being racist. Singapore should do the same- welcome foreigners, yes. But take care of your own people, or at the very least, place them all on equal standing with the expats.

Peace out,
Nicole >>

Disagree

Foreign & Practise Cronyism

Postby Disagree » Fri, 17 Jun 2005 3:32 pm

<< Billy Brownless's reply to Nicole ( pg 23) :-

<<Wake Up. Singapore has chosen to base its entire society on a western model and as such it needs western expertise to bring it together. There are many things that Singaporeans are quite capable of doing without foreign help - but let me tell you. in my industry, the locals have got no effing idea. In time they will, but only after they have learnt the ropes from a westerner. That doesnt make westerners better racially. Just more experienced in setting up things western.>>

Billy Brownless, that may be true where in certain specialised industsry and field, expats are needed. But we are talking of most other areas, where localsl are capable of doing the job. Isn't Australian and NZ are followiing the western models and don't they employ locals first and foreigners last ?? In fact all western countries, are hiring thier own people first. Going by your arguement we should be doing the same. The ridiculous practise that the expat human resource manager here giving junior executive jobs to young expats promoting their own skin colour. Hello this is not your country !! If you think some local university graduates are not up to par, there are many locals graduated from foreign universities too. The government is making a huge mistake to allow locals being discriminated in thier own country !! How ridiculous can it get.. We are talking about skills in Human Resource, Finance, Accounting , Auditing, .... .... which are such common skills and plentiful here. Getting junior expats ( not better in anyway in skills except thier higher pay & who are only good in berating the locals at work or socially.) and top it by practising cronysim employing thier own white kind !! Rubbing salt into wounds I would say.

Wonder what the government and immigration doing about this ? Are they aware of the problem or are they sleeping ??

Singaporean

Postby Singaporean » Fri, 17 Jun 2005 3:58 pm

Welcome to Sillypore where you'll raise their hackles when you call them silly.Hahaha.I'm a singaporean but I find singaporeans has a very silly mentality.Boohoo hoo...hoo.

Next time they'll iritate you please go up to them and say"Hi sillyporean" and walk away.If they get angry just smile and say "but you are silly"Hahaha.

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri, 17 Jun 2005 4:16 pm

Talking about himself?

thinkster
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Hello EARTH people

Postby thinkster » Fri, 17 Jun 2005 4:53 pm

I always get so sick of hearing people say "my country". Can they not evolve beyond that? Is my country better because it invented the radio, the lightbulb, the computer, the internet, television, refrigeration, the peanut butter, s&m sex or whatever? No... it's not, because it's OUR planet that invented these things!
I found this forum here just after reading some krapp at www.quality-nation.com, a racist site that says Singapore should be just for Asians and not white immigrants... as if the Chinese didn't migrate here, as if the Indians didn't migrate here, as if the Arabs didn't migrate here. They advocate being rude and laughing at foriegn devils... My Chinese wife (from China byt he way) and I just have to laugh, coz in China, where most ads feature white people, they don't feel so inferior that these white models threaten them... yet on this site they advocate not doing business with companies who use European models... or even have Australain voices on thier automated phone systems! So insecure, their inferiority complex comes more from within than without, me thinks....
well, that's my two cents....
jeffree

Guest

Re: Hello EARTH people

Postby Guest » Fri, 17 Jun 2005 6:10 pm

thinkster wrote: My Chinese wife (from China byt he way) and I just have to laugh, because in China, where most ads feature white people, they don't feel so inferior that these white models threaten them...
jeffree


You said they don't feel inferior. If that is so, they would have used their own people. Why use foreigners for their advertisements? Aren't the Chinese good enough to appear in it? If they do not feel inferior, then why should they feel threaten by white models as you had described?

The fact is: The locals will really feel inferior if they hire all foreigners as their models, thinking that the locals are not up to it. In contrast, they hire locals due to the fact that they are confident about their ability to do the job.

Another fact for you: There is a mixture of locals & foreigners in the modeling industry here. (you get the job if you are competent)

thinkster
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well...

Postby thinkster » Fri, 17 Jun 2005 7:09 pm

As someone who's been working here in media and advertising, and finding for the first time in my career (that taking place in Europe and California) that I have to discriminate on what humans I represent, and having to "localise" my works by using Asian faces as much as possible to avoid being labeled a "white" media, I was surprised to see so many ads in China for BOTH international brands (Nike, Nokie, Coke, etc) and local brands using white models (not all of them obviously). Obviously the MNC ads were created elsewhere, but when I looked closer at the local brands, I noticed they use a lot of photos from "stock image" collections, (or from the brand manufacturer's), of white people, while there are Asians in those same stock photo collections.
And the fact that many of the Asian faces in Singapore adverts are of Koreans, Japanese or American Asians is completely lost on the local racists is odd too... seems as long as it's Asians, it's Singaporean!!
I don't know if the Chinese marketing people consider whiter to be better, but you would think in such a huge population of Asians there, they would have more Asian faces than whites in their ads in public spaces (Metros, posters, etc). But that wasn't the case.
When I asked my wife's friends and family about why there were so many more whites than Asians in the ads, when the opposite is true in Singapore, they looked at me like I asked a stupid question. When I asked them if it bothered them, to a person none of them cared who was in the ad. I guess they were secure enough in their society and culture that it was a non-matter... definately they didn't feel inferior. If you've ever been to China, you'd know that they actually feel superior to whites... so what's up with the Chinese here?
I think when you wrote "If that is so, they would have used their own people. Why use foreigners for their advertisements? Aren't the Chinese good enough to appear in it? If they do not feel inferior, then why should they feel threaten by white models as you had described?", you misread... I was saying they WEREN't feeling inferior like some (vocal) locals here do. I guess the advertisers might have been too cheap or lazy maybe to reshoot with local models!

As for your fact about the models... no duh.
jeffree

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri, 17 Jun 2005 7:49 pm

In my country in the West, a lot of people from different races appears in ads, and I do not bother.

Only in Singapore do people bother. What is that so?

G. Green

Postby G. Green » Fri, 17 Jun 2005 8:19 pm

I'm a cauc. I used to model here in Singapore. Models then were by default mostly whites. Eurasions were featured too; it was said they were used for their fine features. But, mostly, white was hot.

The local mags then were chock-a-block with whites. Keep in mind that we were advertising local products, local clothing lines, local hair/cosmetics products.

In fact, every so often ad agency scouts would drop by our school and ask kids, invariably white kids, to come model for them.

Now, when I look at the local warehouses, I still see white kids staring back at me. A lot of these are not professional models btw. They're white expats' sons and daughters. I can tell, because I ended up modelling for 10-odd years.

Incidentally, I just got back from JB, same story there, white kids all over the place.

Why is this? Well, for starters, it has nothing to do with racism. So let's get that out of the way.

Rather, it's to give their gear a little bit of allure, appeal. Not to say that white is better of course. But, it so happens that white is far as well. As in, far away geographically. And this lends their stuff a bit of mystique.

Meanwhile, European modelling agencies are all adrool over Asian models. Overthere, it's a vice-versa.

I guess the grass is always greener.

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri, 17 Jun 2005 8:41 pm

Anonymous wrote:In my country in the West, a lot of people from different races appears in ads, and I do not bother.

Only in Singapore do people bother. What is that so?


Not at all. Nobody bothers about where the models come from. In fact, we have seen more whites or Eurasians in the ads here than the locals. As somebody has pointed out here, that they have whiter skins and are suitable representing products in many instances.


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