Singapore Expats Forum

New SC & National Service

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
user3158
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri, 11 Aug 2017

New SC & National Service

Postby user3158 » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:39 am

Hello, I have been reading through the forums trying to find a bit more information about this. But could only find information as close as PR and National Service pre-enlistment.

Long story short, my parents took me out of Singapore when I was less than one. Never got any IC or PP until just last month. This is because I will be / am hoping to move to Singapore to work and live with my wife and son.

In doing all of this, one of the duties was to fill out my NS requirements. They've sent me a reporting order, they don't consider me a defaulter. I can go in and out of the country on my passport that I have been originally using. With no issues.

CMPB has sent me a kind letter letting me know to come in to do my pre-enlistment process for full-time NS. I just wanted to check if at my tender age of thirty-seven will they really be trying to force me to do this? I've tried emailing them and calling to get a clearer explanation but I still only get the cookie cutter responses. "Full-time NS men cannot undertake salaried / contract work ..." and "make necessary arrangements for your family while you are fulfilling your NS obligations"

I have seen other posts here about PRs and getting exemptions and such. I have no idea if mine would go down the same route or not. Or will it come down to them really wanting to squeeze those two years out of me, forcing me out of my paying job and being able to support my family? How concerned should I be concerned for a two year full stop?

Thanks for your time.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34340
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 1:43 pm

Long story short. Was your birth registered as a Singaporean (yes - you said you were taken out of Singapore before your were 1 year of age. I am assuming that you are a Singaporean, correct.

If so, you have a Singapore birth certificate and an NRIC number already (it's on your birth certificate). Therefore, NRIC or no, you are still considered a male who must do his NS. There is no escape just by leaving as an infant. However, there are cases in the past that have been made for situations like this but that has been a number of years ago (I've been on this board for a dozen years). With the tightening up of things, the CMPB/Mindef are not going easy and sadly, it's the children of parents who thought they were pulling something on the government who are paying for their parent's attempt to defraud the government. As noted, your only saving grace may be the fact that you didn't even start school here and aside from the subsidies received by your parents for you birth, it's unlikely that you 'benefited' in any socio-economic way (the usual reasoning by the gahment).

But. You might have to pay a fine although the gahment is trying to make examples of those who want to come back this could also be a prison sentence of 2+ years if the cases earlier this year are anything to go by. If you have taken up another citizenship without renouncing your Singapore citizenship and were not made a dual citizen at birth, but received your 2nd citizenship at some point later, you are in violation of Singapore Law, which only allow for the dual citizenship of a minor based on dual citizenship of the parents (mixed nationalities) and then only up to the age of majority (21). However for males, they cannot renounce unless they have done their NS obligation. Herein lies the problem. As you are a Singaporean, without a proper exit permit(s) you are considered an NS defaulter and these are the ones who are getting burned.


Read it and weep.......

https://singaporelegaladvice.com/defaul ... sentenced/

You may want to reconsider your options.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34340
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 1:52 pm

"I can go in and out of the country on my passport that I have been originally using."


What passport is that? Not your Singapore one for sure. Have you tried coming in since you received your new passport & NRIC? If you haven't you will quite possibly get picked up at immigration now that they know who you are and that you are still alive and well. After that it's downhill all the way because you are now back on their radar. They are very polite and sweet on the phone and via mail/email, etc. until you have stepped foot back in Singapore. At that point they have you. The sweet talk is just a ploy. Be careful, very careful. I believe I'd stay in Johor and not come into Singapore at all. But that's just me.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9528
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 1:56 pm

user3158 wrote:CMPB has sent me a kind letter letting me know to come in to do my pre-enlistment process for full-time NS. I just wanted to check if at my tender age of thirty-seven will they really be trying to force me to do this? I've tried emailing them and calling to get a clearer explanation but I still only get the cookie cutter responses. "Full-time NS men cannot undertake salaried / contract work ..." and "make necessary arrangements for your family while you are fulfilling your NS obligations"

I have seen other posts here about PRs and getting exemptions and such. I have no idea if mine would go down the same route or not. Or will it come down to them really wanting to squeeze those two years out of me, forcing me out of my paying job and being able to support my family? How concerned should I be concerned for a two year full stop?

Thanks for your time.


Not all cases are same.

Going by a very few cases, one guy was asked to Join SCDF, at mid 30's I recall.

And with Volunteer Corps gaining traction, you never know :D

https://www.mindef.gov.sg/safvc/

user3158
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri, 11 Aug 2017

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby user3158 » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 2:46 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
"I can go in and out of the country on my passport that I have been originally using."


What passport is that? Not your Singapore one for sure. Have you tried coming in since you received your new passport & NRIC? If you haven't you will quite possibly get picked up at immigration now that they know who you are and that you are still alive and well. After that it's downhill all the way because you are now back on their radar. They are very polite and sweet on the phone and via mail/email, etc. until you have stepped foot back in Singapore. At that point they have you. The sweet talk is just a ploy. Be careful, very careful. I believe I'd stay in Johor and not come into Singapore at all. But that's just me.


Hello, actually several times since then, for work. Never had any issues. Knock on wood.

user3158
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri, 11 Aug 2017

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby user3158 » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 2:47 pm

ecureilx wrote:
user3158 wrote:CMPB has sent me a kind letter letting me know to come in to do my pre-enlistment process for full-time NS. I just wanted to check if at my tender age of thirty-seven will they really be trying to force me to do this? I've tried emailing them and calling to get a clearer explanation but I still only get the cookie cutter responses. "Full-time NS men cannot undertake salaried / contract work ..." and "make necessary arrangements for your family while you are fulfilling your NS obligations"

I have seen other posts here about PRs and getting exemptions and such. I have no idea if mine would go down the same route or not. Or will it come down to them really wanting to squeeze those two years out of me, forcing me out of my paying job and being able to support my family? How concerned should I be concerned for a two year full stop?

Thanks for your time.


Not all cases are same.

Going by a very few cases, one guy was asked to Join SCDF, at mid 30's I recall.

And with Volunteer Corps gaining traction, you never know :D

https://www.mindef.gov.sg/safvc/



If it's some kind of part time that that will fill out the requirements, but at least still allow me to work and get pay (I can with that kind right) I have no qualms with doing that. I just want to be sure to be able to draw a salary for the wife and little one.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9528
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 3:11 pm

user3158 wrote:If it's some kind of part time that that will fill out the requirements, but at least still allow me to work and get pay (I can with that kind right) I have no qualms with doing that. I just want to be sure to be able to draw a salary for the wife and little one.


GOK, GOK, or more like, Mindef only Knows.

Don't hope too much about the "SALARY" !!!

taxico
Director
Director
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sat, 10 May 2008
Location: Existential dilemma!

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby taxico » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 3:19 pm

user3158 wrote:If it's some kind of part time that that will fill out the requirements, but at least still allow me to work and get pay (I can with that kind right) I have no qualms with doing that. I just want to be sure to be able to draw a salary for the wife and little one.


once you have settled into your unit, you can explain to your PC/OC (OC is the PC's boss) that you must work part-time to feed your family.

i have had people do this to me before (y2k'ish), and i spoke to my boss (staff officer in my unit). her unofficial word was... "so long as nobody complains to me, i have no objections. you handle it as you deem fit."

you may not get permission in writing to get a part-time job, but inform your commanders and they will do their best to help you. they are not robots, and many OCs will have be fathers themselves.

the reason my men tell me is because they need me to grant them (regular) permission to leave camp on time, or be excused from various duties. in turn, as i was green, i asked my boss (an army major).

i can't guarantee this will still be the case today due to the increase in NS pay, but i can't see it going any other way (them closing an eye to your part time work).

FWIW... i was paid a monthly "salary" (with CPF) outside of SAF throughout my NSF days and nothing happened to me. i've been receiving an allowance from my trust this way since i was 13 until i turned 22 (or 25, i can't remember)...

as it goes to a bank (and CPF) account i do not use, it did not even register in my mind until much later after i had completed full-time NS (early noughties).

i don't believe MINDEF spends any time tracking down each and every moonlighting soldier.

at most, ask to be paid in cash only. that's what most enterprising NSF do... good luck.

please keep us posted on your developments.

p/s: not all positions will allow you the opportunity to work. i was posted to a high security "stay out" unit with insufficient bunks/actual beds to cover even the soldiers on overnight duty. (i slept on a collapsible field bed or sponge mattress in my office when i was the duty officer)

if you have to stay in, and you are of a lowly rank, you will ordinarily not be allowed to step out of camp until friday evenings (and you go back on sunday evenings), or you may only be allowed out for a few hours on week days.

working from your laptop/tablet may be possible, but you will have to check (whether or not) they are allowed into your unit.
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

user3158
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri, 11 Aug 2017

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby user3158 » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 4:23 pm

So, from what I gather is that basically its just going to be luck of the draw. Could be nothing, could be everything, but hopefully everyone can be fairly realistic about it all?

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34340
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 5:09 pm

^^^^unofficially only if you are allowed to serve in a unit instead of an undecorated cellblock. Good Luck. Seriously.

user3158
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri, 11 Aug 2017

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby user3158 » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 6:07 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:^^^^unofficially only if you are allowed to serve in a unit instead of an undecorated cellblock. Good Luck. Seriously.


So you believe that even at my age now they will still put me through all of that? Not just work more and pay more into the government that way? I am just curious as a lot of PR holders seem to get a break when married and over 25 holding a decent paying job.

taxico
Director
Director
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sat, 10 May 2008
Location: Existential dilemma!

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby taxico » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 6:53 pm

user3158 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:^^^^unofficially only if you are allowed to serve in a unit instead of an undecorated cellblock. Good Luck. Seriously.


So you believe that even at my age now they will still put me through all of that? Not just work more and pay more into the government that way? I am just curious as a lot of PR holders seem to get a break when married and over 25 holding a decent paying job.


are you sure you aren't mistaken about PRs that "get a break"...?

you have not answered (all of) sunday's questions. in any case, it does not appear you are/were a PR...
Last edited by taxico on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

taxico
Director
Director
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sat, 10 May 2008
Location: Existential dilemma!

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby taxico » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 6:54 pm

Image

user3158 wrote:So, from what I gather is that basically its just going to be luck of the draw. Could be nothing, could be everything, but hopefully everyone can be fairly realistic about it all?
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

user3158
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri, 11 Aug 2017

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby user3158 » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 7:04 pm

taxico wrote:
user3158 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:^^^^unofficially only if you are allowed to serve in a unit instead of an undecorated cellblock. Good Luck. Seriously.


So you believe that even at my age now they will still put me through all of that? Not just work more and pay more into the government that way? I am just curious as a lot of PR holders seem to get a break when married and over 25 holding a decent paying job.


are you sure you aren't mistaken about PRs that "get a break"...?

you have not answered (all of) sunday's questions. in any case, it does not appear you are/were a PR...


Hi sorry I must have missed it.

I have never been a PR, I was born there. My mother was a local, father was US. They never bothered to file anything on the SG side, hence me actively going to get it so I can go there to work.

I can go in and out of the country still as I have not done anything illegal at this point. I did get a further reporting order, what looks like they give to everyone for pre-enlistment. It has the report date, and what they'd like to do if I don't show up. I just would like to know since my case isn't normal if there is a chance were everyone can walk away happy, or we all go away unhappy.

PNGMK
Director
Director
Posts: 4897
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013

Re: New SC & National Service

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 11 Aug 2017 9:06 pm

No one really has seen a lot of cases like this.

IMO you're going to be treated as citizen who has failed to enlist shortly with the associated penalties. Why the freak you did not check this out before you got a Singapore passport (instead of renouncing it) I do not know.
I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests