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PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
healthcare123
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PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby healthcare123 » Mon, 15 May 2017 4:20 pm

Dear all
I am seeking your advise. Today i logged onto the ICA website and saw that my 2nd attempt at PR has been rejected. I have read lots of tips and advise on this subject on this website so i know the application process is not an exact science, but any advise you can give me about where i may have gaps in my application would be really useful. Some basic info below, happy to provide more if it will help:

Gender: Female
Nationality: British
Age: 41
Industry: Healthcare
Job Title: Company Director (Singapore and Japan)
Salary: 15K per month
Current Visa: EP
Education: I do not hold a degree but instead have >20 years experience and knowledge within my industry. I have worked my way up the ranks to Director level.

I have worked with the same company since 1996 and relocated to Singapore with the same company in October 2012 with my husband (no children).
My PR application includes my husband who is a house husband and therefore doesn't earn a salary (he has a DP). He is 49 years old.
I received my 1st reject last May 2016 after i applied for my first attempt in Feb 16, around 3 years 4 months after i first arrived.
I just received my 2nd reject after i applied 03 Jan 17, around 4 years, 3 months since i first arrived.

Anything jumping out at anyone as to why my applications may be unsuccessful?
Any tips for future attempts?

We love it here in Singapore and intend on staying anyway on EP/DP, it would just be nice to have the additional security that comes with being a PR. I am also keen to start paying into the CPF.

Thanks in advance!

manimaran.aa
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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby manimaran.aa » Mon, 15 May 2017 4:32 pm

In my view, Singapore PR is not for professionals, if you are a british better seek opportunities in Britain or elsewhere. There are lot of individuals whom I know and including me, could not secure PR, it gives wrong feeling. However you can try your luck

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Last edited by manimaran.aa on Mon, 15 May 2017 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ecureilx
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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 15 May 2017 5:37 pm

manimaran.aa wrote:In my view, Singapore PR is not for professionals, if you are a british better seek opportunities in Britain or elsewhere. There are lot of individuals whom I know and including me, could not secure PR, it gives wrong feeling. However you can try your luck. Reach me ... could give you some advice.

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Posting email address is the best way to get banned from Most forums :)

And then what is PR For ?

What is PTS for ?? P stands for ??

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jamie9vardy
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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby jamie9vardy » Mon, 15 May 2017 5:45 pm

ecureilx wrote: What is PTS for ?? P stands for ??

Ouch
+1

manimaran.aa
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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby manimaran.aa » Mon, 15 May 2017 8:28 pm

Sorry my first post, doesn't know the rules.

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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 16 May 2017 12:03 pm

healthcare123 wrote:
We love it here in Singapore and intend on staying anyway on EP/DP, it would just be nice to have the additional security that comes with being a PR. I am also keen to start paying into the CPF.

Thanks in advance!


You have been here long enough to understand the place.

What is the benefit for them giving you PR?
Thats what they are asking themselves?

Will you be having any kids in the future?

Will you be looking to start a business and employ Singaporean folk?

Whatever your intentions are its up the Government whether you stay or not no matter what pass you are on , even if you become PR.

Thats the fun :)
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby Kabot » Sat, 20 May 2017 11:17 pm

As far as I can tell, your application is fine. This is like Goodhart's law, if there were a way to game the process, they'd probably close it. So no magic trick and nothing that seems overtly wrong.

Unlike some countries, the process here isn't transparent -- I have the same problem, maybe I'll get it, maybe in ten years I still won't, and then will be past the age limit for that route.

In the meantime, if you eventually get it, having worried about it will just be unnecessary stress. It'll happen or not. You might consider back-up plans if that helps. If it eventually doesn't work out and you have to leave, where would you go? Malaysia has ten year visas; maybe you wouldn't mind returning to your home country; maybe some other place has been a dream.

But yeah, in the meantime, it's harder to commit to buying housing, getting pets, getting better furniture, etc.

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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby Strong Eagle » Sat, 20 May 2017 11:44 pm

I judge that your biggest problem is that you are British, and I judge that is a problem because there are factions infighting within the Singapore gahmen as to whom should qualify for PR.

On the one side are those who think "foreigners" like Brits, and Ozzies, and Kiwis, and Yanks (like me) should get PR because they generally add to the economy, and start new businesses and such. You're never going to become a citizen but it doesn't matter... you're a long term stay and your overall contribution is positive.

On the other side are those who rigidly believe that PR is a stepping stone to citizenship, therefore it should only be given to those with a) those more likely to become citizens, and b) those who "fit in" with Singapore's views of what races and what percentages should be encouraged in Singapore. You fit in none of the convenient racial boxes.

Although I got PR in 2007, and renewed in 2012, I am about positive I would not be granted the same in 2016/2017 for the aforementioned reasons.

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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby BigginHill » Mon, 22 May 2017 6:14 pm

On the other side are those who rigidly believe that PR is a stepping stone to citizenship

Official goverment policy. From the Prime Minister's Office:

https://www.nptd.gov.sg/PORTALS/0/HOMEPAGE/HIGHLIGHTS/population-in-brief-2016.pdf

"Permanent residence is an intermediate step through which suitable foreigners and spouses take up citizenship in Singapore."

The number of new citizens pr year has remained constant for at least the past 10 years, and now correspond to a PR to Citizen conversion ratio of at least 70%. The total PR population has even been dropping continuously since 2012.

Meanwhile, the employment/work pass population continue its climb, even while tightening the
qualification criteria.

http://www.mom.gov.sg/documents-and-publications/foreign-workforce-numbers

Smart move. Obviously SG benefits from foreign expertise. The population of EP / S / WP holders is a lot easier to adjust dynamically in terms of expertise & labour market needs. And SG being a very desirable place to live & work, it is clearly still able to attract a lot of qualified candidates. They just can't count on staying "indefinitely" anymore. (nowhere does the government mention an Employment Pass being the "stepping stone to PR")

You're never going to become a citizen but it doesn't matter... you're a long term stay and your overall contribution is positive.

Would make good sense to keep a small, beneficial diversity quota; perhaps 1-2% PR's allocated to westerners? Who knows.

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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby Kabot » Mon, 22 May 2017 9:47 pm

No need for a quota, they can become citizens like everyone else. If you live here permanently, why wouldn't you eventually? If not, there's no reason to grant it.

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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 23 May 2017 12:06 am

Kabot wrote:No need for a quota, they can become citizens like everyone else. If you live here permanently, why wouldn't you eventually? If not, there's no reason to grant it.


I can give you one good reason why I might want to live in Singapore long term, without becoming a citizen.

That's because Singapore would force me to give up all three of my existing citizenships, and I don't plan on doing that. Lots of countries allow for PR without that mandate that one become a citizen. Singapore doesn't want this because it would 'de-homogenize' the racial and cultural makeup, and make it harder for the gahmen to justify its sometimes oppressive policies.

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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby ukdesigner » Tue, 23 May 2017 3:38 pm

OP, I know how you feel. I've been here nearly 10 years, run my own business, employ a total of 9 staff of which 7 are locals, 1 foreigner and 1 on DP and yet I just got rejected on my 2nd attempt.

Also a Brit, male and mid 40's. My business is now Private Limited with one of my long term employees now a Director and Shareholder so not quite sure what they're looking for these days.
Don't p*ss me off! I am running out of places to hide the bodies.

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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 23 May 2017 4:12 pm

ukdesigner wrote:OP, I know how you feel. I've been here nearly 10 years, run my own business, employ a total of 9 staff of which 7 are locals, 1 foreigner and 1 on DP and yet I just got rejected on my 2nd attempt.


Maybe you need to donate blood ? :D :D Pun intended !

Well, we all know that we all don't know the criteria, other than race plays a major factor !

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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby BigginHill » Wed, 31 May 2017 2:44 pm

ukdesigner wrote:OP, I know how you feel. I've been here nearly 10 years, run my own business, employ a total of 9 staff of which 7 are locals, 1 foreigner and 1 on DP and yet I just got rejected on my 2nd attempt.

Join the club! :D I was pretty baffled as well, with similar 'respectable' credentials.

Look at it this way: Depending on the specific circumstances, under current regulations, you may not even have been able to form your company at all. Starting your own company & subsequently hiring yourself is definitely not straightforward anymore. So we're sort of caught between the old & new policies.

Income level/money doesn't seem to be an important criteria for PR, except at the very low end. Notice how S-pass still qualifies. (minimum monthly salary S$2,200) Also what are they gonna do: Rank from the top & only award PR's to highly paid CEO's, executives etc?

You can still apply PR on the basis of business credentials, only the bar is set high. Under the GIP, you'll need to demonstrate a yearly turnover of S$50m, a pretty healthy size for a personally run company (only the top 20% of Singapore's own SME1000 would qualify!) - and that's a minimum figure.

It's not that Singapore doesn't care about bringing profitable businesses into Singapore. It's just that they focus on the big & strategic stuff, as anyone who's ever dealt with EDB can attest. Bringing in large, substantial businesses, not 10-50 employee SME's.

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Re: PR: 2nd Application Rejected

Postby Addadude » Wed, 31 May 2017 4:12 pm

I know of somebody (Westerner) who just got approved for themselves and their family. (The kids are all girls). They've been here 3 years at most (at time of application) and the approval was within 6 months. The main applicant is in sales in a large MNC. They don't at all fit what we on this forum would have described as the ideal profile...
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