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Unfair system for Citizenship Application

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netflixsg
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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 9:36 pm

yesitsme wrote:Time spent in Singapore is the best, and arguably, the only objective measure of commitment that I can think of..it is no guarantee whatsoever of future when it comes to immigration...

I am a new citizen myself and yes of the unfavorable flavor too...Second guessing someone else's intent based on private conversations.. and complaining to ICA in the belief that it is good citizenry!?!?!?..I reserve my comments :)

OP has a point though..Whats a win-win policy for both Singapore and immigrants?..Singapore PR indeed should be geared towards attracting/retaining best talent with no constraints of minimum stay whatsoever.. Citizenship though should come with a good amount of preference based on length of stay in Singapore..


The time spent in Singapore is due to serving the 6 years MOE bond & 4 years of education. Does that count? They are obliged to stay and not just a commitment. Good citizenry? If this is not good citizenry then what is, when SPF asks the fellow people around for eye witness using a big board along the malls, shop and on the roads? You see something and you report. Would you let someone abuse the system and you watch? Ah come on, you have no idea how much the country needs manpower with the new EP restrictions. You are given citizenship not to run away. When the government is desperate why can't we step in and help ?
Last edited by netflixsg on Fri, 10 Mar 2017 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RE: Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 10:20 pm

netflixsg wrote:The time spent in Singapore is due to serving the 6 years MOE bond of 4 years of education. Does that count? They are obliged to stay and not just a commitment. Good citizenry? If this is not good citizenry then what is, when SPF asks the fellow people around for eye witness using a big board along the malls, shop and on the roads? You see something and you report. Would you let someone abuse the system and you watch? Ah come on, you have no idea how much the country needs manpower with the new EP restrictions. You are given citizenship not to run away. When the government is desperate why can't we step in and help ?


so in turn how about those who are more deserving, committed, being cold shouldered by Govt in the name of meritocracy ? ;)

Singapore is choosy there, don't see any signs of desperation ...

Is it possible these folks I know had a "friend" who made the candidate UnDesirable to the authorities ? ;)

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Re: RE: Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 11:19 pm

ecureilx wrote:
netflixsg wrote:The time spent in Singapore is due to serving the 6 years MOE bond of 4 years of education. Does that count? They are obliged to stay and not just a commitment. Good citizenry? If this is not good citizenry then what is, when SPF asks the fellow people around for eye witness using a big board along the malls, shop and on the roads? You see something and you report. Would you let someone abuse the system and you watch? Ah come on, you have no idea how much the country needs manpower with the new EP restrictions. You are given citizenship not to run away. When the government is desperate why can't we step in and help ?


so in turn how about those who are more deserving, committed, being cold shouldered by Govt in the name of meritocracy ? ;)

Singapore is choosy there, don't see any signs of desperation ...

Is it possible these folks I know had a "friend" who made the candidate UnDesirable to the authorities ? ;)


I see desperation and choosy selection as something that works hand in hand, they are desperate and they find out the best ones in the name of meritocracy! In this particular case, the applicant was boasting that he is moving to the US and use the SC to apply for Green Card. This was told to anyone and everyone that he met. I can't share every detail of this applicant for you! But this is a easy red card. I know of applicants who are well deserving with obligations and intentions to stay in the country. So the folks i know had a "friend" are rational indeed.

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 11:41 pm

netflixsg wrote:. I know of applicants who are well deserving with obligations and intentions to stay in the country. .


so .... again, what happens to these committed folks ?

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Sat, 11 Mar 2017 1:59 am

ecureilx wrote:
netflixsg wrote:. I know of applicants who are well deserving with obligations and intentions to stay in the country. .


so .... again, what happens to these committed folks ?



Isn't this thread all about the same issue? Being unfair?

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby yesitsme » Sat, 11 Mar 2017 12:30 pm

ok..a counter viewpoint..

This argument that Singapore citizenship helps green card or even H1B is overstretch..especially for Indians...read online ..and you will find enough material.. what matters most in US system for Green card quotas is country of birth ..acquired citizenship hardly matters... second the H1B special quota.. For an Indian profile which is at a striking distance from singapore citizenship (typically in upper quartile salary ranges), under today's circumstances will have enough avenues to get H1 in US if there is interest and effort.. they don't have to do this painful PR>SC>H1 route... so this whole idea that Indians need SC launch pad for green card or H1B seems overstretch..

Now coming to good citizenry.. these guys are so shrewd...do community services just to impress ICA..stage facebook likes and shares...and almost every trick in the book.. and then tell you they are going to do this just to abuse the system !?!?! sounds to me either they are too naive or there is an axe to grind??

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby yesitsme » Sat, 11 Mar 2017 12:38 pm

You have a point though that when citizenship is given in good faith..one is expected to spend as much time in the local economy as possible. but hey ..we are talking about human beings.. every one at the end of the day weighs his choices.. as citizens the best one can do is keep Singapore attractive.. as to report this or not? lets see what more the regulars here have to say ;)

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Re: RE: Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby ecureilx » Sat, 11 Mar 2017 9:59 pm

yesitsme wrote:Now coming to good citizenry.. these guys are so shrewd...do community services just to impress ICA..stage facebook likes and shares...and almost every trick in the book.. and then tell you they are going to do this just to abuse the system !?!?! sounds to me either they are too naive or there is an axe to grind??


how many prayers I will give for one like of this post of yours ? ;)

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Sun, 12 Mar 2017 4:51 am

yesitsme wrote:ok..a counter viewpoint..

This argument that Singapore citizenship helps green card or even H1B is overstretch..especially for Indians...read online ..and you will find enough material.. what matters most in US system for Green card quotas is country of birth ..acquired citizenship hardly matters... second the H1B special quota.. For an Indian profile which is at a striking distance from singapore citizenship (typically in upper quartile salary ranges), under today's circumstances will have enough avenues to get H1 in US if there is interest and effort.. they don't have to do this painful PR>SC>H1 route... so this whole idea that Indians need SC launch pad for green card or H1B seems overstretch..

Now coming to good citizenry.. these guys are so shrewd...do community services just to impress ICA..stage facebook likes and shares...and almost every trick in the book.. and then tell you they are going to do this just to abuse the system !?!?! sounds to me either they are too naive or there is an axe to grind??


Looks like I need to educate you on H1B1. H1B1 != H1B. If you think getting H1B as a cake walk procedure, dream on (literally) !!! 1 in 4 gets the H1B visa. And with H1B1 its a walk in. Gets your facts right. I'm very much aware that GC is based on your country of birth if you apply through the Diversity Visa Lottery System. But hey wait, trump has a plan to cease it. But the beloved applicant has no clue about it. I never declared that its my understanding but the applicant's understanding about the GC option. I wish I could educate the applicant just like I did here.

I have one perfect example of an applicant who volunteered for a NGO and posted stuff on FB and he made it. The next applicant whom I'm reporting about follows the same foot step. Like I said I talk with results and occurrences and not just my own assumptions. Oh yeah, when you say we are just humans, I agree but hey wait why not help the government? I look forward to the growth of Singapore and not some random SPR who is in no way planning to contribute to the future of this country. Good citizenry was termed by `ecureilx`. Do you feel more patriotic when you hear 'Majulah Singapura' or 'Jana Gana Mana' ? If you can answer that question and if you favour Singapore I feel you can understand what it means when someone abuses 'my' or 'our' country's immigration system.

When you say
yesitsme wrote:but hey ..we are talking about human beings.. every one at the end of the day weighs his choices..

His choices are only based on the availability of SC and not by fate? Do you see a difference here?

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Re: RE: Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Sun, 12 Mar 2017 8:59 am

yesitsme wrote:Now coming to good citizenry.. these guys are so shrewd...do community services just to impress ICA..stage facebook likes and shares...and almost every trick in the book.. and then tell you they are going to do this just to abuse the system !?!?! sounds to me either they are too naive or there is an axe to grind??


It makes much sense when you change the order of your text:
1. Applicant informs that he is going use SC to help them with GC (though its not possible)
2. OP decides to watch them closely on FB
3. Observes all the tricks being used well by the applicant
4. They are following the proven pattern and OP reports ( no need to convince and grind an axe )
:D

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Re: RE: Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby ecureilx » Sun, 12 Mar 2017 10:22 am

netflixsg wrote:
yesitsme wrote:ok..a counter viewpoint..

This argument that Singapore citizenship helps green card or even H1B is overstretch..especially for Indians...read online ..and you will find enough material.. what matters most in US system for Green card quotas is country of birth ..acquired citizenship hardly matters... second the H1B special quota.. For an Indian profile which is at a striking distance from singapore citizenship (typically in upper quartile salary ranges), under today's circumstances will have enough avenues to get H1 in US if there is interest and effort.. they don't have to do this painful PR>SC>H1 route... so this whole idea that Indians need SC launch pad for green card or H1B seems overstretch..

Now coming to good citizenry.. these guys are so shrewd...do community services just to impress ICA..stage facebook likes and shares...and almost every trick in the book.. and then tell you they are going to do this just to abuse the system !?!?! sounds to me either they are too naive or there is an axe to grind??


Looks like I need to educate you on H1B1. H1B1 != H1B. If you think getting H1B as a cake walk procedure, dream on (literally) !!! 1 in 4 gets the H1B visa. And with H1B1 its a walk in. Gets your facts right. I'm very much aware that GC is based on your country of birth if you apply through the Diversity Visa Lottery System. But hey wait, trump has a plan to cease it. But the beloved applicant has no clue about it. I never declared that its my understanding but the applicant's understanding about the GC option. I wish I could educate the applicant just like I did here.

I have one perfect example of an applicant who volunteered for a NGO and posted stuff on FB and he made it. The next applicant whom I'm reporting about follows the same foot step. Like I said I talk with results and occurrences and not just my own assumptions. Oh yeah, when you say we are just humans, I agree but hey wait why not help the government? I look forward to the growth of Singapore and not some random SPR who is in no way planning to contribute to the future of this country. Good citizenry was termed by `ecureilx`. Do you feel more patriotic when you hear 'Majulah Singapura' or 'Jana Gana Mana' ? If you can answer that question and if you favour Singapore I feel you can understand what it means when someone abuses 'my' or 'our' country's immigration system.

When you say
yesitsme wrote:but hey ..we are talking about human beings.. every one at the end of the day weighs his choices..

His choices are only based on the availability of SC and not by fate? Do you see a difference here?

Can you can confirm ICA gives points for Facebook posts ? I should suggest that to some desperate souls dying to anchor themselves in Singapore, these folks as I said, aren't high earners or in top positions, but have lived here so long, so long their mathematical usefulness to Singapore maybe nearing their product life.

Because of late, as I said, ICA don't seem to give a rat's a** even for ministry awards for community service. Anything to help the case for "good citizenry" will be great.

PS, what is Jana Jana Jana ?

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby yesitsme » Sun, 12 Mar 2017 10:37 am

On the 'Jana Gana Mana' and 'Majulah Singapura'..you hit the nail in the head.. I agree absolutely.. people like me who have gone through a different kind of education/nation building process will never feel the same emotion level as someone who is born on this soil will.. its a no-brainer if anyone thinks otherwise..what ever i do..how ever i live..i will be called a "new citizen.. there is no doing away with that reality for us..

I always joke with my friends ..that the new immigrants like me are not what Singapore really wants..its our children..who will feel just like you do..and will have similar emotions as you on the above question.. the first generation like us are just baggage who come along !!!

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby yesitsme » Sun, 12 Mar 2017 10:46 am

ha..ha..ha...'jana gana mana' is the national anthem of india..equivalent of 'majulah singapura'..

btw my experience with PR/SC application is this.. I have not even once stepped into a CC volunteering or NGO or some other community activity or PAP or any such activity..

I take no pride in saying this..probably I should do something for the community...and I sure will in near future..lack of any of the above seem to have no impact on my application at least..

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby yesitsme » Sun, 12 Mar 2017 10:47 am

Thanks for the education. Not just green card lottery..even regular green card queue system is also based on country of birth of applicant and spouse..please educate me if I am wrong.. so don't use their ignorance as an excuse to convince yourself of doing/saying what you want to do.

Keep emotions aide.. if the end goal is somehow ending up in US !!!.. tell me what an average wait time would be for EP>PR>SC>H1 special quota vs a Indian tech worker getting H1/L1/F1 (yes H1 is not the only option).. Most SC applications approved for Indians typically are PMET types with above average salaries.. The 1 in 4 success rate for H1 you mention might be good for the overall Indian tech worker pool. The pool which qualifies for SC in most cases have strong enough profiles to make in the 1 in 4 queue with ease..

All in all if you don't see the point still ..good luck!! ..Regarding trump doing away with whatever privileges do you feel that everyone else is some how immune from what might come? I think we are digressing now..so will stop..

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Re: RE: Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby ecureilx » Sun, 12 Mar 2017 11:02 am

yesitsme wrote:ha..ha..ha...'jana gana mana' is the national anthem of india..equivalent of 'majulah singapura'..
.


I see, they are your roots I presume ? Is that in the Indian language Indians speak ?

yesitsme wrote:btw my experience with PR/SC application is this.. I have not even once stepped into a CC volunteering or NGO or some other community activity or PAP or any such activity..
.


thanks for clarifying that ..

PAP is NOT CC, or NGO. Or so I thought. Volunteering with CC / NGO / community doesn't help with PAP unless the person is an SC, I have been told.

yesitsme wrote:I take no pride in saying this..probably I should do something for the community...and I sure will in near future..lack of any of the above seem to have no impact on my application at least..


I am convinced you will find things to pick on, if you did volunteer ... than appreciate the goodness of people, people who step up expecting nothing in return.


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