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Unfair system for Citizenship Application

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netflixsg
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Re: RE: Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Thu, 09 Mar 2017 2:15 am

ecureilx wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
:???:

:D

Unless there's an axe to grind ... without proof, proving a person's ill intent won't go far. Good luck to the Responsible Citizen :)


It worked in the past and in ICA I trust! I work with proven results and not empty words :D

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x9200
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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby x9200 » Thu, 09 Mar 2017 5:32 am

Even with a "proof", I don't think anybody will be bothered. I doubt the case will be judged base on a single information. Such information and the "proof" would need to be verified. A random conversations even if recorded can be manipulated so it would require some manpower effort placed in the area where no clear conclusion are likely to be made anyway. What kind of proof we are talking about anyway? Intention to study abroad and move there for that time? C'mon.

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Thu, 09 Mar 2017 10:14 am

x9200 wrote:Even with a "proof", I don't think anybody will be bothered. I doubt the case will be judged base on a single information. Such information and the "proof" would need to be verified. A random conversations even if recorded can be manipulated so it would require some manpower effort placed in the area where no clear conclusion are likely to be made anyway. What kind of proof we are talking about anyway? Intention to study abroad and move there for that time? C'mon.


The guy is moving for work with the help of the new passport! And based on data, Indians and the US have a greater affinity. ICA does looks at this!

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 09 Mar 2017 10:49 am

netflixsg, you would have made a great Nazi... reporting those not following the party line.

You really know nothing about their long term plans, only that which your mind has constructed around your perceived "facts" and motives. You are a victim of confirmation bias.

You forget that plenty of others may be seeking citizenship for reasons that you may find unworthy as well. Yet you focus on this one situation.

You seem to forget that within any human institution, there are the average folk and there are the scammers. It's life.

Pull your panties out of the crack of your ass and move on. Right now, you sound like some petty and punitive neer-do-well... indignant that someone is trying to do something that you judge to be unethical... sort of like the little old lady that keeps calling the city because she doesn't think her neighbors keep the grass cut properly.

Let it go... move on... geezuz... is it that important to you?

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby PNGMK » Thu, 09 Mar 2017 11:13 am

OP; Singapore is a city founded, run and reliant on migrants. There's no way around this. How many generations has your family been here? 2? 3? You too have the advantages this couple have in terms of moving to the US.
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Thu, 09 Mar 2017 7:42 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:netflixsg, you would have made a great Nazi... reporting those not following the party line.

You really know nothing about their long term plans, only that which your mind has constructed around your perceived "facts" and motives. You are a victim of confirmation bias.

You forget that plenty of others may be seeking citizenship for reasons that you may find unworthy as well. Yet you focus on this one situation.

You seem to forget that within any human institution, there are the average folk and there are the scammers. It's life.

Pull your panties out of the crack of your ass and move on. Right now, you sound like some petty and punitive neer-do-well... indignant that someone is trying to do something that you judge to be unethical... sort of like the little old lady that keeps calling the city because she doesn't think her neighbors keep the grass cut properly.

Let it go... move on... geezuz... is it that important to you?


Whatever you said, sounds like advising your fellow citizen that your vote doesn't make a difference, so don't even bother voting.The guy whom I spoke to has once put me in a situation, where he and his foreigner friends had a chance to laugh at our country's administration while I go through some awkwardness hearing it on my soil and do nothing about it. Oh well, I don't think thats how patriotism works. There is more to it, but its as good as revealing my identity here. I can tell you their future plans as he laid out to my friends in the past, he doesn't want to come back to Singapore. If ICA is looking at each application case by case, why not help them? To those who feel nothing can be done, I have a question for you. Have you tried stopping something like this before? I have done & I'm just not a keyboard warrior.

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby x9200 » Thu, 09 Mar 2017 8:04 pm

netflixsg wrote:To those who feel nothing can be done, I have a question for you. Have you tried stopping something like this before? I have done & I'm just not a keyboard warrior.

Please, share what have you done and what happened as a result of your action.

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Thu, 09 Mar 2017 11:28 pm

x9200 wrote:
netflixsg wrote:To those who feel nothing can be done, I have a question for you. Have you tried stopping something like this before? I have done & I'm just not a keyboard warrior.

Please, share what have you done and what happened as a result of your action.


A SPR tried applying for SC and I had to report since the person's intentions were to just get into a good university in the US. Demography of students matter when you apply for the ivy league universities. The person's family moved out of Singapore a few years earlier. The male person in the family didn't take up PR to avoid NS (2nd Gen). The application was rejected. To claim that it is because of my action is a bit arrogant! I would say ICA did their job well

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby x9200 » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 8:26 am

netflixsg wrote:
x9200 wrote:
netflixsg wrote:To those who feel nothing can be done, I have a question for you. Have you tried stopping something like this before? I have done & I'm just not a keyboard warrior.

Please, share what have you done and what happened as a result of your action.


A SPR tried applying for SC and I had to report since the person's intentions were to just get into a good university in the US. Demography of students matter when you apply for the ivy league universities. The person's family moved out of Singapore a few years earlier. The male person in the family didn't take up PR to avoid NS (2nd Gen). The application was rejected. To claim that it is because of my action is a bit arrogant! I would say ICA did their job well

Did you get any response to your report? From what you wrote above, the fact that the male member was not included to the PR was probably the main reason together with some other failures (e.g. tax assessments) as they left Singapore a few years earlier.
It's not arrogant, it's simply unjustified, especially taking into account the rejection rate.

BTW, do you know what is (or was at least) a procedure of reporting a driver for occupying a handicap parking lot? Nope, not enough to send a photo. You have to print it out and attache to a form with your consent to participate in legal proceedings related to the case. Now, compare the caliber of this, with what you would like to do.

I don't want to discourage you. I think in general this is the right thing to do, but you need a solid proof and I don't think you have one. Such proof (example) would be them admitting on FB and in some other, real-life situation. Lastly and again, you still can be wrong.

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby midlet2013 » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 1:07 pm

I think the first course of action for the OP is to stop referring to these cases as his friends because you are clearly not friendship material. A citizenship is a reward for you past commitment to Singapore with a hope that it stays that way in future. Just hope, not a bond :)

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby midlet2013 » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 1:14 pm

Recently, my wife was telling me about a couple who is moving to Canada. They want to live here but their children PR was rejected even tho the parents are PR.

So, you expect future citizens to be fully committed and yet you reserve the right to judge the usefulness of people who are willing to commit.

If you look at it, Singapore grants PR and Citizenship purely based on how useful it deems the applicant. Its really not based on how committed a person is. But you expect gratitude n commitment in return. Sometimes wives are rejected or children are rejected even though 1 or 2 parents is a PR.





midlet2013 wrote:I think the first course of action for the OP is to stop referring to these cases as his friends because you are clearly not friendship material. A citizenship is a reward for you past commitment to Singapore with a hope that it stays that way in future. Just hope, not a bond :)

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Re: RE: Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 2:52 pm

midlet2013 wrote:Recently, my wife was telling me about a couple who is moving to Canada. They want to live here but their children PR was rejected even tho the parents are PR.

So, you expect future citizens to be fully committed and yet you reserve the right to judge the usefulness of people who are willing to commit.

If you look at it, Singapore grants PR and Citizenship purely based on how useful it deems the applicant. Its really not based on how committed a person is. But you expect gratitude n commitment in return. Sometimes wives are rejected or children are rejected even though 1 or 2 parents is a PR.


:D

Well said ...

I know community volunteers including award winners, who got PR but wife / kids denied... and these guys have been involved in community work even before they arrived In Singapore, and just continued.. and their community work was well recognized in Singapore ! But that didn't count as commitment enough, possibly due to a) their passport and / or b) their pay isn't glamorous ...

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 4:45 pm

midlet2013 wrote:I think the first course of action for the OP is to stop referring to these cases as his friends because you are clearly not friendship material. A citizenship is a reward for you past commitment to Singapore with a hope that it stays that way in future. Just hope, not a bond :)


Ah alright acquaintance is the right word ~ Reward the well deserved. Meritocracy doesn't always work! Its a simple pattern in the application process that ICA would have to observe and I'm sure they do.

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby netflixsg » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 4:50 pm

midlet2013 wrote:Recently, my wife was telling me about a couple who is moving to Canada. They want to live here but their children PR was rejected even tho the parents are PR.

So, you expect future citizens to be fully committed and yet you reserve the right to judge the usefulness of people who are willing to commit.

If you look at it, Singapore grants PR and Citizenship purely based on how useful it deems the applicant. Its really not based on how committed a person is. But you expect gratitude n commitment in return. Sometimes wives are rejected or children are rejected even though 1 or 2 parents is a PR.





midlet2013 wrote:I think the first course of action for the OP is to stop referring to these cases as his friends because you are clearly not friendship material. A citizenship is a reward for you past commitment to Singapore with a hope that it stays that way in future. Just hope, not a bond :)


I strongly agree with you! Singapore has an ageing population issue and the employers are finding it hard to get local talents. Govt is granting SC & PR to those who are potential contributors and it has every right to play their game well. This game of hope is a thing of the past. We need results and not predictions

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Re: Unfair system for Citizenship Application

Postby yesitsme » Fri, 10 Mar 2017 5:53 pm

Time spent in Singapore is the best, and arguably, the only objective measure of commitment that I can think of..it is no guarantee whatsoever of future when it comes to immigration...

I am a new citizen myself and yes of the unfavorable flavor too...Second guessing someone else's intent based on private conversations.. and complaining to ICA in the belief that it is good citizenry!?!?!?..I reserve my comments :)

OP has a point though..Whats a win-win policy for both Singapore and immigrants?..Singapore PR indeed should be geared towards attracting/retaining best talent with no constraints of minimum stay whatsoever.. Citizenship though should come with a good amount of preference based on length of stay in Singapore..


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