Singapore Expats Forum

EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Moving to Singapore? Ask our regular expats in Singapore questions on relocation and their experience here. Ask about banking, employment pass, insurance, visa, work permit, citizenship or immigration issues.

Sponsored by:
Image
The Club Residences

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5764
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 03 Mar 2017 1:23 pm

ropt728 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
ropt728 wrote:Just a quick check.
Does MOM look through your passport or immigration for your current location ?


In which country did you pay income taxes last year?

SG


Which means you evaded high income taxes in your country of actual earned income. I seem recall PNG rates are pretty high - 45% or so on income tax. As you may note by my monicker I would like you to shoot yourself in the PHUCKING HEAD.
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5764
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 03 Mar 2017 1:24 pm

You do know you are aiding and abetting criminal tax evasion OP?
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

brian_singapore
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon, 29 Jul 2013

Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby brian_singapore » Sat, 04 Mar 2017 10:07 am

I work for a large MNC who has multiple large scale outsourcing contracts, primarily with Indian outsourcing companies.

Our vendors are now telling us bluntly they can't bring staff on-site due to MOM refusing to issue EP or any other kind of work permits for their staff.

This sounds like more of the same.

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012
Location: SIndiapore

Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby Wd40 » Sat, 04 Mar 2017 11:00 am

I don't think it's so crystal clear that OP evaded taxes. If OP's employer pays OP in Singapore dollars in Singapore and his family is here and all expenses are here, but OP is deployed at another location and there he is paid only enough in that country to reimburse his expenses. Then I don't think it is tax evasion. I know many Indians working in Singapore are then sent on 2 year assignments to other locations like Poland to set up a team there. Their Singapore salary continues and they get a fully furnished flat in Poland and other facilities. I think they rightly pay Singapore taxes on their Singapore salary.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11110
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby Strong Eagle » Sat, 04 Mar 2017 11:43 am

Wd40 wrote:I don't think it's so crystal clear that OP evaded taxes. If OP's employer pays OP in Singapore dollars in Singapore and his family is here and all expenses are here, but OP is deployed at another location and there he is paid only enough in that country to reimburse his expenses. Then I don't think it is tax evasion. I know many Indians working in Singapore are then sent on 2 year assignments to other locations like Poland to set up a team there. Their Singapore salary continues and they get a fully furnished flat in Poland and other facilities. I think they rightly pay Singapore taxes on their Singapore salary.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


This violates virtually every tax treaty there is. Except for very short term employment, almost all nations recognize the principle that the country where the work is performed is the country that has the right to tax that work.

Singapore certainly works that way. Malaysia works that way... if you work there, you pay Malaysian income tax.

If the employee is working in another country and not paying taxes, then it is a scam and illegal... the company is keeping the employee under the radar.

Scam. Fact.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9320
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby x9200 » Sat, 04 Mar 2017 12:40 pm

Wd40 wrote:I don't think it's so crystal clear that OP evaded taxes. If OP's employer pays OP in Singapore dollars in Singapore and his family is here and all expenses are here, but OP is deployed at another location and there he is paid only enough in that country to reimburse his expenses. Then I don't think it is tax evasion. I know many Indians working in Singapore are then sent on 2 year assignments to other locations like Poland to set up a team there. Their Singapore salary continues and they get a fully furnished flat in Poland and other facilities. I think they rightly pay Singapore taxes on their Singapore salary.

The easiest way to see the problem is to link the taxes to what they are actually for and they are to maintain one country services and related infrastructure. I mean things like the police, roads, safety, public infrastructure, etc, sometimes social security. If a person lives and works in a country he uses this infrastructure, benefits from the security enforced by the police so he can safely work there and be paid for his work. I am very surprise Polish tax authorities haven't so far gotten medieval on your friends. They could be pretty vicious, especially right now with blown out proportion spendings of the new populistic government.

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012
Location: SIndiapore

Re: RE: Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby Wd40 » Sat, 04 Mar 2017 12:47 pm

x9200 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:I don't think it's so crystal clear that OP evaded taxes. If OP's employer pays OP in Singapore dollars in Singapore and his family is here and all expenses are here, but OP is deployed at another location and there he is paid only enough in that country to reimburse his expenses. Then I don't think it is tax evasion. I know many Indians working in Singapore are then sent on 2 year assignments to other locations like Poland to set up a team there. Their Singapore salary continues and they get a fully furnished flat in Poland and other facilities. I think they rightly pay Singapore taxes on their Singapore salary.

The easiest way to see the problem is to link the taxes to what they are actually for and they are to maintain one country services and related infrastructure. I mean things like the police, roads, safety, public infrastructure, etc, sometimes social security. If a person lives and works in a country he uses this infrastructure, benefits from the security enforced by the police so he can safely work there and be paid for his work. I am very surprise Polish tax authorities haven't so far gotten medieval on your friends. They could be pretty vicious, especially right now with blown out proportion spendings of the new populistic government.

In that case may be they are indeed paying taxes in Poland then. I am talking of big bank like Credit Suisse. Some of my friends on EP in Singapore were sent to Wroclaw for 2 year assignment. I remember them telling that their Singapore salary continued and they were provided expat facilities in Poland. But in this case are you saying they must pay taxes in Poland for their Singapore salary? Which is probably 4 times Poland normal salary for the same role.

I see the reasoning behind company continuing to pay Singapore salary as it is a short term assignment with the understanding that the staff will be brought back to Singapore. Staff may have mortgage and other expenses in Singapore.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9320
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: RE: Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby x9200 » Sat, 04 Mar 2017 1:18 pm

Wd40 wrote:
x9200 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:I don't think it's so crystal clear that OP evaded taxes. If OP's employer pays OP in Singapore dollars in Singapore and his family is here and all expenses are here, but OP is deployed at another location and there he is paid only enough in that country to reimburse his expenses. Then I don't think it is tax evasion. I know many Indians working in Singapore are then sent on 2 year assignments to other locations like Poland to set up a team there. Their Singapore salary continues and they get a fully furnished flat in Poland and other facilities. I think they rightly pay Singapore taxes on their Singapore salary.

The easiest way to see the problem is to link the taxes to what they are actually for and they are to maintain one country services and related infrastructure. I mean things like the police, roads, safety, public infrastructure, etc, sometimes social security. If a person lives and works in a country he uses this infrastructure, benefits from the security enforced by the police so he can safely work there and be paid for his work. I am very surprise Polish tax authorities haven't so far gotten medieval on your friends. They could be pretty vicious, especially right now with blown out proportion spendings of the new populistic government.

In that case may be they are indeed paying taxes in Poland then. I am talking of big bank like Credit Suisse. Some of my friends on EP in Singapore were sent to Wroclaw for 2 year assignment. I remember them telling that their Singapore salary continued and they were provided expat facilities in Poland. But in this case are you saying they must pay taxes in Poland for their Singapore salary? Which is probably 4 times Poland normal salary for the same role.

I see the reasoning behind company continuing to pay Singapore salary as it is a short term assignment with the understanding that the staff will be brought back to Singapore. Staff may have mortgage and other expenses in Singapore.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk

TBH I don't know, but in a typical scenario I would expect them to pay the taxes in Poland. If this was as simple as being paid in some other country to avoid taxation in the country where the actual in-person work is done, all people would be paid in some tax paradises, or countries like Singapore, what I think is not the case.

I suspect there may be some some tax agreements, exemptions and such. If a company is big enough there is always some freedom to negotiate.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11110
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Re: RE: Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby Strong Eagle » Sat, 04 Mar 2017 10:55 pm

Wd40 wrote:I see the reasoning behind company continuing to pay Singapore salary as it is a short term assignment with the understanding that the staff will be brought back to Singapore. Staff may have mortgage and other expenses in Singapore.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


2 years is rather hard to envision as a "short term" assignment. In fact, in Singapore, short term means 60 days or less. Between 61 and 182 you pay non-resident tax rates, over that, standard rates.

https://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/Indivi ... o-Pay-Tax/

Moreover, Singapore states that money earned abroad and paid into a Singapore bank account is not taxable to the Singapore resident (which an EP holder would be). That is based upon the (correct) assumption that the person will be taxed in the country in which she is working.

https://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/Indivi ... and-Taxes/

It is also pretty clear that Polish authorities expect tax to be paid.

https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/insigh ... e-tax.html

So, what we have here is a scam that is now published to the world, and you would think that Credit Suisse would know better. They probably do... they just don't want to have to make up the tax difference.

ludwig12
Member
Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed, 04 Sep 2013

Re: RE: Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby ludwig12 » Sun, 05 Mar 2017 7:56 am

Wd40 wrote:
x9200 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:I don't think it's so crystal clear that OP evaded taxes. If OP's employer pays OP in Singapore dollars in Singapore and his family is here and all expenses are here, but OP is deployed at another location and there he is paid only enough in that country to reimburse his expenses. Then I don't think it is tax evasion. I know many Indians working in Singapore are then sent on 2 year assignments to other locations like Poland to set up a team there. Their Singapore salary continues and they get a fully furnished flat in Poland and other facilities. I think they rightly pay Singapore taxes on their Singapore salary.

The easiest way to see the problem is to link the taxes to what they are actually for and they are to maintain one country services and related infrastructure. I mean things like the police, roads, safety, public infrastructure, etc, sometimes social security. If a person lives and works in a country he uses this infrastructure, benefits from the security enforced by the police so he can safely work there and be paid for his work. I am very surprise Polish tax authorities haven't so far gotten medieval on your friends. They could be pretty vicious, especially right now with blown out proportion spendings of the new populistic government.

In that case may be they are indeed paying taxes in Poland then. I am talking of big bank like Credit Suisse. Some of my friends on EP in Singapore were sent to Wroclaw for 2 year assignment. I remember them telling that their Singapore salary continued and they were provided expat facilities in Poland. But in this case are you saying they must pay taxes in Poland for their Singapore salary? Which is probably 4 times Poland normal salary for the same role.

I see the reasoning behind company continuing to pay Singapore salary as it is a short term assignment with the understanding that the staff will be brought back to Singapore. Staff may have mortgage and other expenses in Singapore.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


For expat, the company will need to do "tax equalization" which means that the expat will be paying the tax like they stayed in the home country but the company will pay the additional tax burdens on the salary and all the expat benefits.

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5764
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: RE: Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 06 Mar 2017 10:16 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
Wd40 wrote:I see the reasoning behind company continuing to pay Singapore salary as it is a short term assignment with the understanding that the staff will be brought back to Singapore. Staff may have mortgage and other expenses in Singapore.

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


2 years is rather hard to envision as a "short term" assignment. In fact, in Singapore, short term means 60 days or less. Between 61 and 182 you pay non-resident tax rates, over that, standard rates.

https://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/Indivi ... o-Pay-Tax/

Moreover, Singapore states that money earned abroad and paid into a Singapore bank account is not taxable to the Singapore resident (which an EP holder would be). That is based upon the (correct) assumption that the person will be taxed in the country in which she is working.

https://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/Indivi ... and-Taxes/

It is also pretty clear that Polish authorities expect tax to be paid.

https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/insigh ... e-tax.html

So, what we have here is a scam that is now published to the world, and you would think that Credit Suisse would know better. They probably do... they just don't want to have to make up the tax difference.


It's possible that the bank is paying Polish income tax on behalf of the employees. We do the same for some expat employees in other locales (they are paid in Singapore and pay their personal income tax here but we do actually file/pay income tax in Thailand on their behalf for example).
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
snakebite
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed, 12 Apr 2017

Re: EP renewal rejected * need help and advice urgently

Postby snakebite » Fri, 14 Apr 2017 10:59 am

Two things:

(1) What would be the point of having a legal process that companies must follow to recruit foreign employees, if all they have to do is go to a labour outsourcer and get one from there? Your employer on record at MOM is the outsourcing company, not their clients.

(2) Your salary might fall into the "local worker first" category.

Combined they likely don't want you to work here.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Relocating, Moving to Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: sonoftexas and 2 guests