Procedure for NS deferment and renunciation?

[teck21]

I have been a very long time reader of this forum, and understand that some of the posters here, especially MS have extensive knowledge of the above, so perhaps I could get some advice for my nephew.

My nephew is a Singapore citizen by birth, and both his parents are still SCs. They moved to Australia as a family in May 2012 with their son who was 6 then.

They have been living there ever since, back only for the summer holidays every December.

My nephew turned 10 last month, and he has only until December this year till he turns 11.

The original idea was that he could come back to serve NS, but he has behavioural issues (which is why they moved back then because autism wasn't really considered a 'thing' yet) , that unless rectified would likely get him into a truckload of trouble in an authoritarian environment like the armed forces.

My sister thinks doing NS would do him more harm than good, which I am inclined to believe now.

Yet, like most Singaporeans who have moved abroad, they are very cavalier in their attitude, assuming that just being legitimately outside of the country takes care of everything, which we know is completely untrue.

So I'm hoping to get some specific information on the procedure to defer NS, and eventually renounce SG citizenship.

Just to recap, the boy is now 10 years old. Left just before 6, and has never attended primary school in SG.

He currently still holds and uses his SG passport, although I hope their getting Aussie passports should not be an issue given they have been there over 5 years now.

Let's say they have done that, they would need to cancel his SG passport right? At the high commission in Canberra?

And they need to contact Mindef as well? And there is/are specific personnel who are in charge? I think I had previously seen a name and contact number, but I can't find it now.

I know they leaving it a bit late, but hopefully there's time for them to sort it out still.

Many thanks to all you good people here.

PS They do not own a HDB property.

[PNGMK]

They need to move fast, shortly they will be sent a letter stating they must register the child's absences from Singapore (I believe my son got his at 13). I know there is a specific procedure to follow (and I believe it was outlined in a brochure that used to be available at CMPB - MS might be able to help). A couple of things I know they must NOT do;
1. Continue using a Singapore PP - as you state he needs to acquire Australian citizenship ASAP so he can stop using his Sinky passport.
2. Getting the child an NRIC.
3. Maintaining CPF in Singapore.

I would add though that is the child is actually autistic and not just an aspie he would possibly be medically exempted from service but better not to risk it. Of course if he is an actual retard you'd not be concerned so I assume he's "on the spectrum".

If they have been PR in Australia for 4 years Australian citizenship is a pretty fast process.

[PNGMK]

Some forms:

https://www.mfa.gov.sg/content/dam/mfa/ ... enship.pdf

https://www.cmpb.gov.sg/cmpb/parents-gu ... enlistees/

https://www.guidemesingapore.com/reloca ... itizenship

[PNGMK]

Procedure (looks accurate) and some contact details here:

http://asingaporeanson.blogspot.sg/2015 ... t-you.html

One thing to note is that while your "nephew" cannot renounce prior to 21 his parents should definitely inform CMPB of their intentions and establish his Australian citizenship ASAP as well as not utilising any Singapore benefits (primarily passport, NRIC, education, HDB, CPF) in the mean time. The ages vary by rumour but my belief is this is best done before he turns 13.

[teck21]

Thank you.

He's on the high functioning end of the spectrum which makes Singapore (and even Oz) a difficult place for him. All he ever got here were the 'nasty child who obviously hasn't been caned enough' looks from strangers, or often, not even strangers.

Thanks for the responses and the links so far.

He was never issued an NRIC on account of his age, and obviously has no CPF of his own.

But now it seems the actions of the parents themselves play an important role?

His parents will have to renounce their Singapore citizenship as well? If so, can that be done together as a family when he reaches 21? Will his parents' continued use of their Singapore passports when he is between 11/133 and 21 render him unable to renounce without defaulting on NS?

And their CPF funds? They had previously owned an executive condominium before, and accepted the HDB grant but that was a pretty long time ago now. They sold it when they were sure they would move to Oz, but now do own private property which is being serviced from their existing CPF funds (plus rental income). Is there something they need to do about this?

[teck21]

Oh, and is it possible to actually follow the correct protocol, do everything properly, and then decide later on that he actually wants to serve NS in order to remain a SC? Is this sort of U-turn entertained?

He does actually feel a bond to this country on account of his cousins here.

[PNGMK]

Thank you.

He's on the high functioning end of the spectrum which makes Singapore (and even Oz) a difficult place for him. All he ever got here were the 'nasty child who obviously hasn't been caned enough' looks from strangers, or often, not even strangers.

Thanks for the responses and the links so far.

He was never issued an NRIC on account of his age, and obviously has no CPF of his own.

But now it seems the actions of the parents themselves play an important role?

His parents will have to renounce their Singapore citizenship as well? If so, can that be done together as a family when he reaches 21? Will his parents' continued use of their Singapore passports when he is between 11/133 and 21 render him unable to renounce without defaulting on NS?

And their CPF funds? They had previously owned an executive condominium before, and accepted the HDB grant but that was a pretty long time ago now. They sold it when they were sure they would move to Oz, but now do own private property which is being serviced from their existing CPF funds (plus rental income). Is there something they need to do about this?

I am not an expert but maintaining these style of links does two things:

1. Shows that they are hedging their bets and have not completely migrated (note that they could own the property as many foreigners do but using CPF is definitely benefiting from Singapore).
2. Shows that they are still reliant on the Singapore state.

A 100% bet would be for the parents to fully migrate, take up Oz citizenship, cash in their CPF (no need to sell property I think) for the whole family. Otherwise they have no migrated; they have simply resided in a different country while relying on the full protection and support of the Singapore government.

For your last question he could choose to come back (even after informing CMPB of his intention to renounce) PROVIDED he has not actually renounced. Once he has renounced (and not performed NS) many doors are closed for Singapore (visa, work permit etc).

[taxico]

The original idea was that he could come back to serve NS, but he has behavioural issues (which is why they moved back then because autism wasn't really considered a 'thing' yet) , that unless rectified would likely get him into a truckload of trouble in an authoritarian environment like the armed forces.

My sister thinks doing NS would do him more harm than good, which I am inclined to believe now.

in all honesty, he will have to go through CMPB's doctors (who may refer him to civilian specialists, as well as rely on other documentation provided by the boy's parents) so that his suitability for NS may be ascertained.

for all you know, he may not be required to serve NS after assessment.

between the time of his first call-up, and the time he is eligible to renounce his singapore citizenship, perhaps he should fly to singapore (with a parent/guardian and all his paperwork) to drop into CMPB.

this may entail a short period of stay in singapore...

in the event he gets enlisted for NS, my friends (SAF doctors) have informed me that SAF now takes a slightly different approach for such cases.

his commanders may intervene at any time (and they have been instructed to do so if they observe any strange behavior) to refer him back to the medical board (say, for a review/exemption).

between the period the he has to wait for the board, he may be given medical leave by the unit MO if necessary (so he will have to find somewhere safe to stay if he has no bed in camp - likely the case as he will be a pes E "stay out" soldier).

i caution that if he has lots of kin in singapore (or very little in AU), it may be wise to not keep him shut out of singapore permanently.

what may be an ideal environment for a boy with autism to grow up in may not be so when he's all grown up.

[PNGMK]

Thanks Taxico... good to see you learnt a lot of medicine driving Uber...

I would not take him into CMPB unless you've decided to come back. This is recommended against by several others who have been through the system.

[Mad Scientist]

OP

I am confused. There way I see it your nephew's parents wants him to skip NS due to his shortcomings but the parents wants to still hang on to SC citizesnhip
it won't work
Which is it ?

if he wants to serve NS or "mom' is worried about his disabilities, I am inclined to go with Taxico. The child needs to have a chronology of events or sickness or being identified by SG GP, professional as an autism child. It must be in MOH database. Then on to SAF MO which will be a breeze once identified.
He will be either Pes E or exempt from NS for all you know
You cannot go with overseas professional, Mindef will not accept

If you want to skip NS altogether then age 13 apply for EP
Family must acquire OZ citizenship not PR.
Parent must renounce first, then at age 13 state intention that child wishes to renounce SG citizenship when child turns 21

You cannot have both your ways. It is either MINDEF way or the highway

[PNGMK]

OP

I am confused. There way I see it your nephew's parents wants him to skip NS due to his shortcomings but the parents wants to still hang on to SC citizesnhip
it won't work
Which is it ?

if he wants to serve NS or "mom' is worried about his disabilities, I am inclined to go with Taxico. The child needs to have a chronology of events or sickness or being identified by SG GP, professional as an autism child. It must be in MOH database. Then on to SAF MO which will be a breeze once identified.
He will be either Pes E or exempt from NS for all you know
You cannot go with overseas professional, Mindef will not accept

If you want to skip NS altogether then age 13 apply for EP
Family must acquire OZ citizenship not PR.
Parent must renounce first, then at age 13 state intention that child wishes to renounce SG citizenship when child turns 21

You cannot have both your ways. It is either MINDEF way or the highway

OP this is good feedback from someone who knows the way it works and has brought his children successfully out of Singapore.

[teck21]

Thanks guys for your help.

They're not trying to game the system or anything, just figuring out the procedure for handling it right should they decide that his interests are best served by him not serving NS in which case they will take the necessary steps.

As for asking whether the decision can be changed should he decide later on he wants to do NS, I think it is a perfectly legitimate one since a child's understanding of what it means to undergo NS/giving up a citizenship/etc will likely change from when they are 13 and 18. So I guess it's his parents who will decide for him.

I am not a psychiatrist so I am in no position to say whether or not he can get an exemption, although I would suspect it is very unlikely given how highly functioning he is. He appears normal, barring an almost complete inability to 'read people's face colors' (literally translated from Chinese) and virtually all non-verbal cues people send when communicating resulting in him frequently being 'kuai lan' (insolent and sometimes offensive) without even realising his behaviour is causing estrangement from, and anger in other people.

I have seen people with far worse conditions in NS, and I'm thinking about the poor schizophrenic NSF who killed himself after being treated harshly despite his superiors being completely aware of his condition from memos from the medical officer.

The assumption is not that NS will kill or ruin him, but it would be remiss for the parents not to consider the options, and find out what needs to be done and do it if necessary. It's a great deal better than him coming here to ask in a decade why he faces jail time because of something his parents didn't consider. Even if he was perfectly normal.

Once again, thanks to you all knowledgeable people here.

[PNGMK]

Good for you for planning ahead.

[taxico]

for non-chinese members, "read people's face colors" (probably) means "read people" or "read people's mood"

...I am in no position to say whether or not he can get an exemption, although I would suspect it is very unlikely given how highly functioning he is. He appears normal, barring an almost complete inability to 'read people's face colors' (literally translated from Chinese) and virtually all non-verbal cues people send when communicating resulting in him frequently being 'kuai lan' (insolent and sometimes offensive) without even realising his behaviour is causing estrangement from, and anger in other people.

I have seen people with far worse conditions in NS, and I'm thinking about the poor schizophrenic NSF who killed himself after being treated harshly despite his superiors being completely aware of his condition from memos from the medical officer...

steps have been taken to reduce the likelihood of that happening again.

not a guarantee, but SAF'll be probably less risk-averse in future than it was in the past.