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legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

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SimonTheExpat
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legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by SimonTheExpat » Sat, 26 Nov 2016 4:55 pm

Hi all, first post here

A few months back I got my EP and I'm now living and working here in Singapore.

My understanding was, that in order rent a flat here in Singapore the individual needed to have an EP.

So I did not bother looking for a flat to rent whilst I was here searching for a job. I then got a job, got my EP and rented a flat, on the standard 2 year lease contract with the 1 year diplomatic clause if I lost my job/EP.

But my question is, if I lose my EP, from a legal standpoint can I stay and pay rent in my flat?

I understand that I would have to leave singapore and re-enter to get fresh 90 day visitor visa, say perhaps twice in order to have sufficient time to find a new job. But it would sure help if I could keep renting my flat.

I mean I understand that if I lose my job the EP goes, I will have say 30 days to look for another job, but this is not very long. If I lost my job can I still continue to pay the landord the rent each month for the duration of the 2 year rental contract, even if I no longer have an EP?

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Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by x9200 » Sat, 26 Nov 2016 6:10 pm

SimonTheExpat wrote:Hi all, first post here

A few months back I got my EP and I'm now living and working here in Singapore.

My understanding was, that in order rent a flat here in Singapore the individual needed to have an EP.

So I did not bother looking for a flat to rent whilst I was here searching for a job. I then got a job, got my EP and rented a flat, on the standard 2 year lease contract with the 1 year diplomatic clause if I lost my job/EP.

But my question is, if I lose my EP, from a legal standpoint can I stay and pay rent in my flat?

I understand that I would have to leave singapore and re-enter to get fresh 90 day visitor visa, say perhaps twice in order to have sufficient time to find a new job. But it would sure help if I could keep renting my flat.

I mean I understand that if I lose my job the EP goes, I will have say 30 days to look for another job, but this is not very long. If I lost my job can I still continue to pay the landord the rent each month for the duration of the 2 year rental contract, even if I no longer have an EP?
I see it as a gray area. As far as I understand the regulation the requirement of having a valid residential pass (any residential, not only EP) is to prevent the short term rental. The reason for this is not to make nuisance to other residents. As for the case you described, the rental status of the flat de facto doesn't change, well, the purpose of the law is served.

This is just my opinion, so don't take it as a view of the authorities. And of course, staying with no valid immigration pass (any) is an offense under any circumstances.

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Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by SimonTheExpat » Sat, 26 Nov 2016 9:17 pm

@x9200

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I would never consider staying without a valid immigration pass. I would simply leave Singapore and come back in on a 90 day visitor pass (if I lose my EP and cant find a job in 30 days).

But its really the legal status of continuing to rent the flat, surely there are no 'grey areas' in Singapore which seems to me to be so well managed and run!

Also the same question goes for my local Bank Account, if I lose my EP only a few months after getting it, do I then have to close my local bank account within 30 days?

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Re: RE: Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by ecureilx » Sat, 26 Nov 2016 10:10 pm

SimonTheExpat wrote:@x9200

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I would never consider staying without a valid immigration pass. I would simply leave Singapore and come back in on a 90 day visitor pass (if I lose my EP and cant find a job in 30 days).

But its really the legal status of continuing to rent the flat, surely there are no 'grey areas' in Singapore which seems to me to be so well managed and run!

Also the same question goes for my local Bank Account, if I lose my EP only a few months after getting it, do I then have to close my local bank account within 30 days?
for the bank account, as long as you have a local address for correspondence purposes, no bank I know forced any closure.

Same doesn't apply for CC

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Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by squishyfats » Sun, 27 Nov 2016 12:15 am

I think this depends on the kind of property you are leasing? I doubt there will be any issues if you are renting a condo. There might be some if you are renting a local flat.

Personally, I don't see any problems so long as you continue paying your rent and to not overstay your visit pass.

The only time when the authorities will 'check' if you're renting illegally is most likely when someone lodges a complaint or you are behaving suspiciously (e.g. re-entering SG too many times.)

Of course, if you are not able to find a new job within a few months or so while renting a HDB, chances are your landlord may boot you out of your place. They are risking their flat being reclaimed by the government/being fined heavily.


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Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by brian_singapore » Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:22 am

I suspect for all practical purposes, it won't matter if you stay and keep renting.

My lease (I happen to have a copy at my desk...) does have a clause stipulating that I will make sure all occupants have valid and legal visas to remain in Singapore, thought it doesn't stipulate the kind of visa required.

Does your lease say anything in this regards?

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Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:38 am

Ignore posters who have three posts on this topic...

Landlords here (inc me) have no interest in being whipped for harbouring illegal over stayers. Saying that though the only time we really would check is on a lease set up or renewal so yes you'd get away with this until a lease renewal came up. It doesn't matter if you're in a HDB or condo... of course when your EP is not renewed and your SVP expires the ICA / cops will be in contact with the owner of your apartment.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
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Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by SimonTheExpat » Tue, 06 Dec 2016 1:58 pm

PNGMK wrote:Ignore posters who have three posts on this topic...

Landlords here (inc me) have no interest in being whipped for harbouring illegal over stayers. Saying that though the only time we really would check is on a lease set up or renewal so yes you'd get away with this until a lease renewal came up. It doesn't matter if you're in a HDB or condo... of course when your EP is not renewed and your SVP expires the ICA / cops will be in contact with the owner of your apartment.
I dont understand why you say "harbouring illegal over stayers"? If I lose my EP, I will leave singapore and then come back in and will be granted a 90 day visitor visa, why will I be overstaying???? I will leave before the vistor visa expires and if I do come back into Singapore then they would also have granted me another visitor visa at the airport so again, why will I be overstaying?

"of course when your EP is not renewed and your SVP expires", again I dont understand why you are saying this? I have no intention of staying after my SVP expires, if my EP cancelled then I will leave and come back in on a 90 day visitor visa?

My question was, If I lost my job can I still continue to pay the landord the rent each month for the duration of the 2 year rental contract, even if I no longer have an EP? I was not asking or implying anything about overstaying a visa.

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Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 06 Dec 2016 2:17 pm

The only people who are allowed to rent private residences in Singapore are those who have some sort of residency visa, e.g., PR, EP, WP, S, Student, LTVP or other visa which permits residency. An SVP (Social Visit Pass - e.g., Tourist Visa) is NOT a residency pass so you are limited to staying in commercial units, e.g., hotels or other similar.

The reason for the 30 day SVP being granted to EP/S pass holders at the end of their contracts is for the express purpose of shutting down your obligations here, e.g., housing and other contracts that would need to be terminated before departure. Once you leave you can no longer stay in public housing, but only in commercial units zoned as such.

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Re: RE: Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by ecureilx » Tue, 06 Dec 2016 8:01 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The only people who are allowed to rent private residences in Singapore are those who have some sort of residency visa, e.g., PR, EP, WP, S, Student, LTVP or other visa which permits residency. An SVP (Social Visit Pass - e.g., Tourist Visa) is NOT a residency pass so you are limited to staying in commercial units, e.g., hotels or other similar.
.
not exactly true SMS. No offence :)

I know a handful of folks who rented condos under their company name but have registered themselves as tenants legally. They hold no residency in Singapore. They're in Singapore like twice a month or so.

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Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 06 Dec 2016 11:34 pm

Well, I reckon that considering that he's lost his company, it's the same, yeah?

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Re: RE: Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by Strong Eagle » Wed, 07 Dec 2016 12:01 am

ecureilx wrote:not exactly true SMS. No offence :)

I know a handful of folks who rented condos under their company name but have registered themselves as tenants legally. They hold no residency in Singapore. They're in Singapore like twice a month or so.
The house can be rented by a company but don't forget that a company must have at least one "normally resident" director. If the company is a one man show, and the director loses her EP, then the company is not valid as it has no normally resident director.

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Re: RE: Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by x9200 » Wed, 07 Dec 2016 8:22 am

ecureilx wrote:I know a handful of folks who rented condos under their company name but have registered themselves as tenants legally.
Register where? At HDB?

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Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by PNGMK » Wed, 07 Dec 2016 9:10 am

Maybe he means MOM/ICA/NPP?
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: RE: Re: legality of staying in rented flat after loss of EP

Post by ecureilx » Wed, 07 Dec 2016 10:26 am

PNGMK wrote:Maybe he means MOM/ICA/NPP?
Nope. I mean the tenancy agreement states the names of resident, passport copy etc ...which gets stamped etc. What do the lawyers do with the copy ? Send to URA ?

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