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Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 6:32 pm
by HombreGenaro
Hi All,

We are a couple living in Singapore and have recently had a baby (10 weeks ago). Prior to having the baby we'd started coming across a lot of information about vaccination - good and bad, but mostly bad. Today was the first real jab for our 10 week old baby. We were very concerned and apprehensive as we approached the appointment having done some research prior to the visit.

We discussed with the paediatrician our concerns about the safety of the vaccines and she convinced us we should vaccinate (she didn't force it - after giving her 'pitch' as to why we should vaccinate, she left the final decision to us). Against our better judgement, being scared of what we've read about vaccines and being scared about what we're told could happen if we don't get them, we ultimately decided to go along with the vaccination this time around (what really got us was when the doctor started talking about our lifestyle and the places we travel to; we caved in at that point and went with the jab). When we walked out of the office my wife broke down in tears because we're so worried about making the right decision for our child, not wanting any harm to come to him (either way).

Any thoughts or comments on this topic - Whether to vaccinate or not to vaccinate?

Thanks,
Concerned Parents

Re: RE: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 9:28 pm
by ecureilx
HombreGenaro wrote: Any thoughts or comments on this topic - Whether to vaccinate or not to vaccinate?
Despite the doomsday theories, vaccinate.

That's me having worked very closely with the Rotary Polio Program.

And in Singapore, working with disabled, the foresight of vaccination is so obvious even though some diseases maybe non existent as of now.

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 7:18 am
by Barnsley
HombreGenaro wrote:Hi All,

We are a couple living in Singapore and have recently had a baby (10 weeks ago). Prior to having the baby we'd started coming across a lot of information about vaccination - good and bad, but mostly bad. Today was the first real jab for our 10 week old baby. We were very concerned and apprehensive as we approached the appointment having done some research prior to the visit.

We discussed with the paediatrician our concerns about the safety of the vaccines and she convinced us we should vaccinate (she didn't force it - after giving her 'pitch' as to why we should vaccinate, she left the final decision to us). Against our better judgement, being scared of what we've read about vaccines and being scared about what we're told could happen if we don't get them, we ultimately decided to go along with the vaccination this time around (what really got us was when the doctor started talking about our lifestyle and the places we travel to; we caved in at that point and went with the jab). When we walked out of the office my wife broke down in tears because we're so worried about making the right decision for our child, not wanting any harm to come to him (either way).

Any thoughts or comments on this topic - Whether to vaccinate or not to vaccinate?

Thanks,
Concerned Parents
You do realise that diseases that had once died out are now returning to places where folk have decided that vaccinations are a detrimental thing.

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 9:23 am
by HombreGenaro
thanks for your feedback!

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:23 am
by x9200
OP, even if you believe some of the threats related to vaccination are real, the likelihood of anything really bad to happen is low. I bet it is lower than using cars. Still you use the cars despite of obvious and well documented risks and you do it because there are substantial benefits of doing it, life saving included. See my point?

Re: RE: Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 9:19 pm
by ecureilx
x9200 wrote:OP, even if you believe some of the threats related to vaccination are real, the likelihood of anything really bad to happen is low. I bet it is lower than using cars. Still you use the cars despite of obvious and well documented risks and you do it because there are substantial benefits of doing it, life saving included. See my point?
Well said, professori!!

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Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 10:10 pm
by okonu
Simple - are you a complete moron who believes crap like infowars, thinks that crystals have healing powers and thinks Facebook posts have same validity as peer reviewed medical journals? In that case, don't vaccinate. In all other cases, do.

Even then - read up on herd immunity. Vaccination acts as a fire break. If too many people aren't vaccinated, then infectious diseases can spread. You are not only risking your kid, you are risking others.

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 10:26 pm
by PNGMK
Certain countries have sensibly cut-off welfare or school access to people who don't vaccinate their kids. Personally I'd rather bring back quarantine stations. You must vaccinate. I grew up in a country that had a primitive background, thousands still die or suffer from easily preventable diseases. Autism is not caused by vaccinations, that I'm sure of.

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Sun, 23 Oct 2016 11:21 am
by sundaymorningstaple
PNGMK, they ought to line 'em up on their knees alside shouting maid users, yeah? ;-) (I'm with you on this!)

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Sun, 23 Oct 2016 7:08 pm
by rajagainstthemachine
Living in the tropics with no vaccination, not a very sensible move, I'm sorry I don't buy into this tin foil hat, Alex Jones crap.

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 3:07 am
by Strong Eagle
rajagainstthemachine wrote:Living in the tropics with no vaccination, not a very sensible move, I'm sorry I don't buy into this tin foil hat, Alex Jones crap.
Big +1 on what raja said. Do not listen to the anti-vaxxer idiots, especially in Southeast Asia. Get every vaccination you can as soon as it is available. Do it for yourself, too.

There are still many primitive, undeveloped areas in Asia. Modern travel has made it possible for lots of unvaccinated people to travel to urban centers, catch airplanes, all kinds of stuff. You do your child a disservice by leaving them unprotected.

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 11:32 pm
by sundaymorningstaple
Best news I've heard concerning the anti-vaxx crowd....

http://www.tnp.sg/news/singapore-news/a ... king-fines

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 4:41 pm
by kaseyma
HombreGenaro wrote: We were very concerned and apprehensive as we approached the appointment having done some research prior to the visit.

Against our better judgement, being scared of what we've read about vaccines ....
All those fears occurred due to a SINGLE fraudulent article (which all subsequent posts ultimately referenced):

"The widespread fear that vaccines increase risk of autism originated with a 1997 study published by Andrew Wakefield, a British surgeon. The article was published in The Lancet, a prestigious medical journal, suggesting that the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine was increasing autism in British children.

The paper has since been completely discredited due to serious procedural errors, undisclosed financial conflicts of interest, and ethical violations. Andrew Wakefield lost his medical license and the paper was retracted from The Lancet."

http://www.publichealth.org/public-awar ... -debunked/
Note that this "researcher" lost his license for this!
As Charles Darwin stated many years ago, no one's observations can be trusted until repeated.
HombreGenaro wrote:Prior to having the baby we'd started coming across a lot of information about vaccination - good and bad, but mostly bad. ... We were very concerned and apprehensive as we approached the appointment having done some research prior to the visit.
...
Against our better judgement, being scared of what we've read about vaccines and being scared about what we're told could happen ....

Any thoughts or comments on this topic - Whether to vaccinate or not to vaccinate?

Thanks,
Concerned Parents
Being a first-time parent is a scary thing.
So, it is understandable that you try to look elsewhere for answers.

However, you need to be very careful about how much trust you put into what you find on the Internet.
People posting on the Internet seek attention & eyeballs.
Sensationalism works towards this end, at the expense of truth.

Always check the sources of whatever you find, and remember Darwin's admonition.

That so many people have been taken in by this anti-vaccination nonsense is a damning indictment of the education systems, and of intellectual laziness in general. The Internet has made it so easy to find things about most anything, that people no longer check for sources and credibility.

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 9:44 am
by rajagainstthemachine
Well said kaseyma!! You couldn't have put it better, most of the articles posted on the internet have little or no credibility.
Unfortunately the web 2.0 was supposed to make the internet better, but it only succeeded in adding more idiots online.( not intended towards OP)
In the early 90s the internet was a rich source of information, now just gibberish and social media.

Re: Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate - that is the question

Posted: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 12:37 pm
by x9200
I can only tell you this: it's not that simple. Wrong referencing is sort of secondary - it only seems to confirm the believes.

One of the strongest, underlying factors triggering peoples' fears is IMHO the coincidence of the time of first vaccinations with the time where "symptoms" of developmental problems may appear. Add to this, that ASD regression seems often to be triggered by different physiological events, one of them being fever and after vaccination children often get fever. This is enough for many people to make a link. If a child is going or already is on the spectrum, the regression may happen with the next flu or for any other reason or no apparent reason at all, but because it happens during the same period as typically children get vaccinated, well, here we go...

Yet another coincidence adding to the fear is similarity of the symptoms caused by some heavy metal poisoning with those typical of ASD and again, people will make another statistically unjustified link between (for example) Thimerosal (Mercury based preservative) in the vaccines and ASD.

Now, as the population in concern is very big, there are these individual cases. Desperate parents use all sort of methods to help their children. Some of them are based on fully justifiable scientific approaches. For example, you may use methods to remove heavy metals from your body and there are cases where such children are claimed to get recovered. The problem is, nobody can tell if the children got recovered because of the treatment, or because of something else, or even if they were on ASD before (misdiagnosis). These are isolated cases where the case and the treatment was neither properly controlled nor documented to allow any scientific based conclusion. But of course, as one of the fears is heavy metal poisoning many parents will only see this link: vaccination - Thimerosal - ASD - heavy metals removal treatment - no ASD. Such cases are very vocal, while probably the recovery for most of them, is purely coincidental and may have nothing to do with the heavy metals.

So it is not really about the scientific papers. Is some critical mass of the parental fear, with a number of situations where there seems to be a link, but unlikely there is any. Unjustified conclusions based on insufficient data.