Ex-citizen male, can stay in Singapore?

[johnsmith1234]

Hi all,

Can a male ex Singapore citizen live in Singapore? Consider the following facts:

-Moved overseas with parents as a baby.
-Lived overseas for whole life.
-Had to renounce Singapore Citizenship at age 21 to keep foreign citizenship. See above, made sense to keep foreign citizenship as living overseas since baby. Not deliberately dodging NS.
-Followed the correct process for renunciation of Singapore Citizenship.
-In late twentys, got married to a Singaporean.
-Now in early thirties and wanting to stay in Singapore, for various reasons. E.g. to be closer to wife's parents, etc.

Any opinions on likelihood of being granted some sort of visa e.g. LTVP or PR? Or know of similar cases who were successful or unsuccessful?

I understand there may be an NS liability but would just like to know the chances of actually being allowed to live in Singapore at this stage.

Thanks.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I'd say it's possible but the probability factor I couldn't begin to guess. As you exited as a baby and left according to protocol, I would think you could get an LTVP/+ without too much problem. As to whether PR would be eventually available I couldn't hazard a guess, it's possible but I have no anecdotal evidence to back that up. Citizenship, though would probably be out of the question. Again. times change and so does policy.

[johnsmith1234]

Thanks.

There seems to be a lot of information on ex-PRs - seems like their chances of returning to Singapore to work, live or study are very low. That's what the Wikipedia article seems to imply anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_service_in_Singapore#Singapore_Permanent_Residents

However, I cannot seem to get information on ex-citizens by birth. This helpful article seems to mention the adverse consequences of giving up citizenship are similar: http://www.singaporeexpats.com/resources-in-singapore/articles/guide-to-ns.htm

But an ex-citizen by birth who moved overseas at a very young age is different to say, a PR who moved overseas in his late teens, gives up PR and wants to return in his early twenties. I hope the authorities see it that way!

Would be really interested to hear if anyone knows of any male ex-citizens by birth who managed to live in Singapore, or if it's basically impossible. Because at this stage, even getting an LTVP seems to be a lost cause only due to being an male ex-citizen.

[midlet2013]

Allowing to stay may or may not be an issue. But working and getting more may be.

Recently, we hired an ex-Sg citizen who works in the US (Aus citizen). His EP was rejected. And my company is very important and closely related to Singapore govt and getting the right people is more important than anything else.

[Mad Scientist]

Thanks.

There seems to be a lot of information on ex-PRs - seems like their chances of returning to Singapore to work, live or study are very low. That's what the Wikipedia article seems to imply anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_service_in_Singapore#Singapore_Permanent_Residents


It is not being implied but a reality

However, I cannot seem to get information on ex-citizens by birth. This helpful article seems to mention the adverse consequences of giving up citizenship are similar: http://www.singaporeexpats.com/resources-in-singapore/articles/guide-to-ns.htm

But an ex-citizen by birth who moved overseas at a very young age is different to say, a PR who moved overseas in his late teens, gives up PR and wants to return in his early twenties. I hope the authorities see it that way!

It does not matter if you moved away at birth or at 11 or whatever age. Once you acquired SG citizenship by birth , to renounce as you have done will be at 21 and it is stated when your parent applied for deferment to renounce at 21 when you are at the age of 13 that there will be serious implication on gaining work, reside as PR apart of visiting under social visit once you renounced.
To regain your SG citizenship will be impossible

Would be really interested to hear if anyone knows of any male ex-citizens by birth who managed to live in Singapore, or if it's basically impossible. Because at this stage, even getting an LTVP seems to be a lost cause only due to being an male ex-citizen.

if you want to hear from this forum there will be NONE, For those that managed to get it will be remote in fact I never heard of anyone that managed to do this while I am working for them

[johnsmith1234]

Thanks for the replies.

@midlet2013 - Was the EP rejected only because he's an ex-citizen? If so, did MoM say something along the lines of "talk to CMPB first, then maybe we'll reconsider" or was it more like "doesn't matter what you do, you can never work here".

@Mad Scientist - At this stage, I'm just trying to figure out whether an EP or LTVP is possible. There are a couple of similar cases, who were successful in getting EPs as follows:

Ex-PR who renounced in late-teens: http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/viewtopic.php?t=84791
Ex-Citizen by Descent: http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/viewtopic.php?t=110747

Do you think my situation has less of a chance than these cases? If so, why?

Of course there are other factors to consider, but that's the point. I'm just trying to figure out whether the "ex" status itself is reason to be denied any type of visa/pass other than a short term visit pass.

[taxico]

Thanks for the replies.

@midlet2013 - Was the EP rejected only because he's an ex-citizen? If so, did MoM say something along the lines of "talk to CMPB first, then maybe we'll reconsider" or was it more like "doesn't matter what you do, you can never work here".

@Mad Scientist - At this stage, I'm just trying to figure out whether an EP or LTVP is possible. There are a couple of similar cases, who were successful in getting EPs as follows:

Ex-PR who renounced in late-teens: http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/viewtopic.php?t=84791
Ex-Citizen by Descent: http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/viewtopic.php?t=110747

Do you think my situation has less of a chance than these cases? If so, why?

Of course there are other factors to consider, but that's the point. I'm just trying to figure out whether the "ex" status itself is reason to be denied any type of visa/pass other than a short term visit pass.

why not take this one step at a time? you can't get singapore citizenship with being SPR. you can't get SC/SPR immediately.

have you applied for an LTVP/LTVP+? and can you qualify for any sort of work pass?

[johnsmith1234]

Thanks for the replies.

@midlet2013 - Was the EP rejected only because he's an ex-citizen? If so, did MoM say something along the lines of "talk to CMPB first, then maybe we'll reconsider" or was it more like "doesn't matter what you do, you can never work here".

@Mad Scientist - At this stage, I'm just trying to figure out whether an EP or LTVP is possible. There are a couple of similar cases, who were successful in getting EPs as follows:

Ex-PR who renounced in late-teens: http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/viewtopic.php?t=84791
Ex-Citizen by Descent: http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/viewtopic.php?t=110747

Do you think my situation has less of a chance than these cases? If so, why?

Of course there are other factors to consider, but that's the point. I'm just trying to figure out whether the "ex" status itself is reason to be denied any type of visa/pass other than a short term visit pass.

why not take this one step at a time? you can't get singapore citizenship with being SPR. you can't get SC/SPR immediately.

have you applied for an LTVP/LTVP+? and can you qualify for any sort of work pass?

My thread title seems to be confusing the issue. I should have called it "Ex-citizen male, possible to get anything other than short term visit pass?"

I am taking it one step at a time. I'm not expecting PR or Citizenship, hence my questions about my chances of getting an EP or LTVP.

[midlet2013]

I do not know the details. I don't know at what age he gave up on citizenship. My only point was that if it is hard for him to get EP, anything more seems impossible.

He is in a hard to find area ( tech data science works in Silicon Valley). Salary can't be an issue . So personally the only issue seems to be citizenship .

I also heard that the guy's Brother works in Singapore.

Please don't take this sole example as a trend. But if I were u, I would try to figure out what issues u may face in the Long term.

Best of luck

[johnsmith1234]

I thought EP rejections came with reasons?

If you don't have that information, no problem, thanks for the reply

[sundaymorningstaple]

EP rejections don't have to have reasons (in detail) Will have something like you are rejected because you do not qualify, or some other vague reason. They don't give exact reasons as they try to prevent tailored applications. That is also why the online checker only say that you are qualified to make an application but still does not mean you will be successful in obtaining one.

[PNGMK]

I would look into the 'come home disapora' program or whatever the reverse brain drain program is called now.

[midlet2013]

I would look into the 'come home disapora' program or whatever the reverse brain drain program is called now.

disapora or diaspora . u r using not using auto correct properly.

btw, shouldn't this reverse brain drain be for citizens abroad and not people who gave up their citizenship.

[PNGMK]

I would look into the 'come home disapora' program or whatever the reverse brain drain program is called now.

disapora or diaspora . u r using not using auto correct properly.

btw, shouldn't this reverse brain drain be for citizens abroad and not people who gave up their citizenship.

Desperate measures for desperate times. I personally don't see the OP succeeding in anything except being a tourist in Singapore. The loophole of leaving Singapore from infancy until adulthood as a male is closed tighter than a goldfishes arsehole.

[johnsmith1234]

Ok noted, but tighter than those two cases I linked to earlier?

If so, why?

I'm very interested in what people here have to say but further elaboration would help a lot. For example, some of the answers I'm looking for are:

-Rules have tightened further since 2012. That ex-PR guy wouldn't stand a chance now.
AND/OR:
-An ex-citizen by birth is screwed no matter what because [insert reason]. However, the ex-PR who renounced in late teens had a chance because [insert reason]. Similarly, the ex-citizen by descent had a chance because [insert reason].