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Lent money and borrower not returning

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GSM8
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Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby GSM8 » Mon, 05 Sep 2016 11:53 pm

I am posting this on behalf of a friend of mine (let's say person A) who lent $2000 to their acquaintance (let's say person B) in good faith, but B has since refused to return to A for over a year, initially starting with excuses, and now has begun to scoff at A when asked to return it. Other circumstances are:
1. Good faith loan made by A when B was in need of money for their business. B has now done well in their business and probably earned the amount several times over.
2. No proof or promissory note. Only whatsapp messages, but even those are not there now due to A's mobile phone crash.
3. At one point shortly after the loan, B gave a cheque for the amount to A, but it bounced (it's been nearly a year since that happened). But A did not pursue it upon B begging not to. Later B gave a cheque for $500 saying the rest later, but that has never come. So B still owes A $1500.
4. A is a PR, and B is most probably a foreigner sole proprietor who issued themselves an EP and runs an art gallery.
5. From what I know this is a civil matter that is not police jurisdiction, and small claims court doesn't deal in loan matters. Can ICA or ACRA help?

I realize that it was not particularly smart of A to have lent money to B in such a fashion, but I feel very strongly about the injustice and B's smug arrogance, and also its not a trivial amount for A, whereas I wrote earlier B now has the money. Would anyone on the board be able of offer advice? Much appreciated. (to clarify, A is not me, it's a friend who is not on this board)

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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby earthfriendly » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 12:12 am

I can understand the sense of injustice. Okie, now let's move on into real life. My motto is this, only lend out money that you are willing to loose. Maybe this will help you reframe the situation?

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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby x9200 » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 8:45 am

GSM8 wrote:I am posting this on behalf of a friend of mine (let's say person A) who lent $2000 to their acquaintance (let's say person B) in good faith, but B has since refused to return to A for over a year, initially starting with excuses, and now has begun to scoff at A when asked to return it. Other circumstances are:
1. Good faith loan made by A when B was in need of money for their business. B has now done well in their business and probably earned the amount several times over.
2. No proof or promissory note. Only whatsapp messages, but even those are not there now due to A's mobile phone crash.
3. At one point shortly after the loan, B gave a cheque for the amount to A, but it bounced (it's been nearly a year since that happened). But A did not pursue it upon B begging not to. Later B gave a cheque for $500 saying the rest later, but that has never come. So B still owes A $1500.
4. A is a PR, and B is most probably a foreigner sole proprietor who issued themselves an EP and runs an art gallery.
5. From what I know this is a civil matter that is not police jurisdiction, and small claims court doesn't deal in loan matters. Can ICA or ACRA help?

I realize that it was not particularly smart of A to have lent money to B in such a fashion, but I feel very strongly about the injustice and B's smug arrogance, and also its not a trivial amount for A, whereas I wrote earlier B now has the money. Would anyone on the board be able of offer advice? Much appreciated. (to clarify, A is not me, it's a friend who is not on this board)

The only positive thing about the situation is that despite no formal agreement is in place, the evidence seems sufficient to prove to some extent what happened. But that's about it. I don't think there is any reasonable legal solution. If your friend is an adventurous kind let him find the location of the company/B and make a 1 person picket with a proper sign like "B, give me back my money". May help.

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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:12 am

Your friend could engage in punching the other fellow in the nose next time he is scoffed at. Do it with just enough force so that it is a none seizable offense. If you're actually charged explain in court the circumstances of the provocation so that they become public record. http://news.asiaone.com/News/The+Strait ... 47963.html
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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:14 am

By the ways passing a bounced cheque is a criminal offense in Singapore. I would at least file a police report on that.
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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:17 am

FYI I published a blog about someone who owed me money. It was not defamation as it was factual. After he googled his name and found that "Bernie Monneron owes me money" he thought about paying it back but didn't. AFAIK this is still the top result for his name and his brokerage business has suffered from this.
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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby Max Headroom » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:17 am

PNGMK wrote:FYI I published a blog about someone who owed me money. It was not defamation as it was factual. After he googled his name and found that "Bernie Monneron owes me money" he thought about paying it back but didn't. AFAIK this is still the top result for his name and his brokerage business has suffered from this.


Sorry, who owes you money?

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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby Bigjohn32819 » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 2:01 pm

PNGMK wrote:I would at least file a police report on that.


I concur. A call from the police might be just enough to rattle him.

The bounced cheque is enough evidence to nuke him ... IMHO ...

So you really have nothing to lose.

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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 2:22 pm

Max Headroom wrote:
PNGMK wrote:FYI I published a blog about someone who owed me money. It was not defamation as it was factual. After he googled his name and found that "Bernie Monneron owes me money" he thought about paying it back but didn't. AFAIK this is still the top result for his name and his brokerage business has suffered from this.


Sorry, who owes you money?


:mrgreen:
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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby x9200 » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 5:43 pm

PNGMK wrote:By the ways passing a bounced cheque is a criminal offense in Singapore. I would at least file a police report on that.

I doubt it is. I believe it is a common misconception that come from the fact that frauds are committed using bad cheques. Comparing to many typical fraud cases, it is relatively easy to prove the intent of committing the fraud when a cheque was used but this doesn't mean any bad cheque is a criminal offence. If this was the case probably 1/3 of the Singapore population had a criminal record.

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Re: RE: Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 5:54 pm

x9200 wrote:
PNGMK wrote:By the ways passing a bounced cheque is a criminal offense in Singapore. I would at least file a police report on that.

I doubt it is. I believe it is a common misconception that come from the fact that frauds are committed using bad cheques. Comparing to many typical fraud cases, it is relatively easy to prove the intent of committing the fraud when a cheque was used but this doesn't mean any bad cheque is a criminal offence. If this was the case probably 1/3 of the Singapore population had a criminal record.


From what I know it's a civil offence, unless you can prove there was intent to cheat, example issue a check on a closed account or issue a 1 million $ check on an account that never had more than 100 $.

In the case of former, engage a lawyer to sue for breach of trust.

Latter, police case. Or so I think.

Its not that bad like Dubai ;)

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x9200
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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby x9200 » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 6:12 pm

Yes, very good examples Ecu. And fraud is a criminal offence but what is always needed is to prove the intent. If the court would be convinces that the culprit knew that the account was closed or always very low on money, then good luck proving otherwise.

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Re: RE: Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 6:26 pm

x9200 wrote:Yes, very good examples Ecu. And fraud is a criminal offence but what is always needed is to prove the intent. If the court would be convinces that the culprit knew that the account was closed or always very low on money, then good luck proving otherwise.

But the issue is, without a court order, banks won't reveal the actual financial status ... which won't be the case if you can convince the police that it's criminal, who can get all information faster than a civil case.

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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby x9200 » Tue, 06 Sep 2016 9:32 pm

Yes, agree, but I doubt the police will be that willing to take any action. Still may be worth to try.

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Re: Lent money and borrower not returning

Postby GSM8 » Wed, 07 Sep 2016 8:47 am

Thanks everyone for your inputs, appreciated. As others have pointed out, in and of itself a bounced cheque is not a police case. And intent to defraud can be difficult to establish. Sucker punch may be an option, but likely not the solution as it will lead to police involvement casting person A also unfavorably. Person B has now been indulging in unsavory language and implied intimidation in response to recent reminders, so that might be a basis to approach police. Will pass on the info to A and post on progress.


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