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Awaiting working pass

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ongvoon
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Awaiting working pass

Postby ongvoon » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 3:57 am

Hi everyone,

May I know is that legal for me to continue renting HDB room while awaiting new job application approval from MOM?

I've been renting this room since April 2016 and going to receive work permit by next week. I resigned my job and now I'm under social visit pass and I'm Malaysian.

Do I need to apply anything to make sure that I'm legally allowed to stay here while waiting my work approval?

Please advise....thanks

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x9200
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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby x9200 » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 5:05 am

If you mean, living in that room, then it is illegal and only getting the pass will make it legal. If you want to be extra safe, you may consider a short holiday in your home country.

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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 11:06 am

X9200, is it instantly illegal, from the date Ongvoon's previous work permit/pass ended? Or does Ongvoon have some number of days, starting from the date his previous work pass/permit expired? I cannot find firm, official guidance from HDB, but I believe it to be the latter.

Also, does Ongvoon have a duty to notify his HDB landlord of his work permit/pass termination? I believe he does, but when? All I've been able to find so far is that the landlord has an obligation to notify HDB within 7 days of a change in his/her subtenant's particulars.

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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 12:07 pm

Theoretically, it should be illegal as foreigners are required to give a minimum of one month's notice before leaving a position. This is to give sufficient time to clear up here in Singapore so that you can leave at the end of your notice period. (That would also include things like notice to your LL, Utility Company, Phone Company, IR-21 Tax Clearance, etc., etc). When you have finished you should have already shipped your belongings, etc. So I would say, based on the reason for 1 month notice, that staying in the flat after getting an SVP would be technically illegal.

I would assume as long as you didn't try to stay longer than a week or so (remember that the LL has to notify the HDB if your status changes-e.g. no longer on a resident visa).

I was also not able to find a definitive answer either.

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x9200
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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby x9200 » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 12:12 pm

Actually I may be wrong. The 6 months period comes from URA and I don't really see any references in any URA documents (I might have missed some, just a brief search) to the passes. Also the main concern of URA seems the quality of living including the density of the occupants and frequency they move in and out. If this is correct, than the OP should not worry.

The pass validity is the ICA/MOM thing and legality of the stay is independent of the place the person lives. It would be actually redundant if URA include this to to their regulations.

These two factors are probably combined for the practical reason, but the rationale behind the 6 months period seems to be linked not to the pass, but to the actual occupancy.

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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 12:40 pm

Regarding the HDB:

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/reside ... ligibility

Citizenship
Subtenants must be any of the following:

Singapore Citizens

Singapore Permanent Residents

Non-citizens legally residing in Singapore who are holders of Employment Passes, S Passes, Work Permits, Student Passes, Dependant Passes, or Long-Term Social Visit Passes. These passes must have a validity period of at least 6 months as at the date of your subletting application

Work Permit holders from the construction, marine and process sectors must be Malaysians

Tourists are not allowed as subtenants of HDB flats


So, if your status were to change from the above allowable visas, then you would be technically illegal.

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x9200
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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby x9200 » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 1:29 pm

I didn't check HDB as they have their own regulations and not necessarily the same applies for the private properties, but what is in blue, is the redundancy I mentioned - are there any tourist visas with validity longer than 3 months?

One more related thing: often, after the pass is cancelled ICA/MoM grants short term visit pass just to wrap all the things up before one has to leave. How this would count?

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Re: RE: Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 1:56 pm

x9200 wrote:I didn't check HDB as they have their own regulations and not necessarily the same applies for the private properties, but what is in blue, is the redundancy I mentioned - are there any tourist visas with validity longer than 3 months?


More than 3 months SVP ? None that I know of.

One more related thing: often, after the pass is cancelled ICA/MoM grants short term visit pass just to wrap all the things up before one has to leave. How this would count?


It would be the first, if a landlord threw me out because my pass was cancelled and I am on 30 day SVP.

Leaving legalities aside, never heard of landlords who are that kiasu, including those who get scared when informed properly that parents or relatives will stop over for a day or two !!

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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby x9200 » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 2:36 pm

Anyway, what SMS posted clearly points out that the pass is required so OP, my initial post for HDB and your situation is valid. It is not illegal in a sense that you are breaking the law, but you do not follow the HDB regulations. I don't know how flexible HDB is, but probably won't hurt to give them a call and ask, whether in your situation it would be ok to wait this week.

On the other hand I believe HDB has no hold on you and it's not a party for you so when you should inform the LL (earlier point from BBCW) it should be IMHO in the TA. Is there anything like that?

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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 3:11 pm

I cannot find anything official that speaks to what happens after your permit/pass ends, except that you must leave Singapore before the STVP expires. Before a lease begins, private and HDB landlords have to perform due diligence to ascertain whether prospective tenants can legally stay. As I read it, they also have to keep track of permit/pass expiration dates and seek additional proof of renewed status when that expiration date is reached. I also see that HDB landlords have an obligation to report changes in their subtenants' particulars to HDB within 7 days -- if they know about such changes.

....But that's all I can find. The rest seems to be governed (or not) by tenancy agreements, agreed. Consequently there doesn't seem to be any legal barrier to a tenant staying in the same rented property after his/her permit/pass ends for the full duration of his/her immediate, subsequent 30-day STVP.

Anybody seeing anything different?

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Re: RE: Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 4:22 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:I cannot find anything official that speaks to what happens after your permit/pass ends, except that you must leave Singapore before the STVP expires. Before a lease begins, private and HDB landlords have to perform due diligence to ascertain whether prospective tenants can legally stay. As I read it, they also have to keep track of permit/pass expiration dates and seek additional proof of renewed status when that expiration date is reached. I also see that HDB landlords have an obligation to report changes in their subtenants' particulars to HDB within 7 days -- if they know about such changes.

....But that's all I can find. The rest seems to be governed (or not) by tenancy agreements, agreed. Consequently there doesn't seem to be any legal barrier to a tenant staying in the same rented property after his/her permit/pass ends for the full duration of his/her immediate, subsequent 30-day STVP.

Anybody seeing anything different?


So if I am given the 30 day social visa upon cancellation What should I do ? Just for argument's sake ..

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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby x9200 » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 4:38 pm

I would do nothing because:
1) you are fine as per immigration
2) you are (seems to be) fine as per URA if you continue with the lease
3) 1&2 seems to be behind the concerns of HDB.

But if your TA obliges you to inform the LL on any changes in the pass you should do this or you risk possible recourse if the LL suffers some related damages (I am not sure if there could be any realistic).

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Re: RE: Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 4:58 pm

x9200 wrote:I would do nothing because:
1) you are fine as per immigration
2) you are (seems to be) fine as per URA if you continue with the lease
3) 1&2 seems to be behind the concerns of HDB.

But if your TA obliges you to inform the LL on any changes in the pass you should do this or you risk possible recourse if the LL suffers some related damages (I am not sure if there could be any realistic).


+1

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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby taxico » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 5:39 pm

after telling LL (not that i think you should), and LL notifying HDB, LL can undertake (via signed document sent to HDB) to make sure you are compliant and to kick you out when you are not.
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

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Re: Awaiting working pass

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 30 Aug 2016 5:53 pm

I agree with x9200 also, for now. However, I can think of one thing you might have to do in due course. There's no guarantee you can physically reenter Singapore if the time comes when you have to leave, when your 30 day STVP is nearly exhausted. One thing you should do, just before you leave, is to take anything you own that you cannot afford to lose.


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