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Need Help on some questions.

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

Kardin25
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Need Help on some questions.

Postby Kardin25 » Wed, 17 Aug 2016 8:24 am

Hey guys, I am new to Singapore and I have some questions that would like some clarifications. I'll try to provide information as detail as possible so bear with me.

My background:

Age: 23
Nationality: Malaysian Chinese
Education: UK Degree in International Business & Malaysia Degree in Logistics & Supply Chain Management
Work Experience: 8 months in Tesco Stores Malaysia. (Supply Chain Analyst)
Current Job Title: Procurement & Logistics Executive
Company Size: 12-50 Small Family Business Firm
Work Visa: Work Permit
Current Salary: $1,800

Question 1: Salary Concerns

My concern is $1,800 consider as underpaying for a degree holder in Singapore? I clearly understand that there are a LOTSSS of degree holders out there and having one doesn't make you special. But is there any certain like minimum salary range for it? I still consider myself as a fresh graduate given that I have less that 1 year experience. I checked with Addecco, the starting pay for Procurement / Supply Chain Executive with Diploma / Degree is $2,500. Of course, I don't expect having that amount since I'm an Expat but my expectation would be around $2,200-$2,300. Is this figure too high?

Source: https://www.adecco.com.sg/media/adecco- ... 202015.pdf

Question 2: Work Visa Eligibility

My first job in Singapore was with a multinational Freight Forwarding Company. The size of Singapore branch is 51-200 headcount. For this job, I was offered $2,200 and an Employment Pass. I checked with MoM and found out that I am actually not entitled to the Employment Pass since my pay is way wayyy below the minimum requirement. My position was just an Operation Assistant. How did the company applied for it? Did the company report my salary higher, but pay me less? I'm confused. Anyway, I left the company in a month period because I worked like 12-15 hours a day, with just 1 lunch break, 5.5 days job & no OT claims.

For this new job (Procurement & Logistics Executive), I was offered a Work Permit instead, ideally I would like to have an Employment Pass for my future plannings. So is there any way for this cause I'm planning to stay with this current employer for at least a few years time.

Thanks in advance for all your constructive feedbacks. I would really appreciate it.

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Need Help on some questions.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 17 Aug 2016 9:59 am

Kardin25 wrote:Hey guys, I am new to Singapore and I have some questions that would like some clarifications. I'll try to provide information as detail as possible so bear with me.

My background:

Age: 23
Nationality: Malaysian Chinese
Education: UK Degree in International Business & Malaysia Degree in Logistics & Supply Chain Management
Work Experience: 8 months in Tesco Stores Malaysia. (Supply Chain Analyst)
Current Job Title: Procurement & Logistics Executive
Company Size: 12-50 Small Family Business Firm
Work Visa: Work Permit
Current Salary: $1,800

Question 1: Salary Concerns

My concern is $1,800 consider as underpaying for a degree holder in Singapore? I clearly understand that there are a LOTSSS of degree holders out there and having one doesn't make you special. But is there any certain like minimum salary range for it? I still consider myself as a fresh graduate given that I have less that 1 year experience. I checked with Addecco, the starting pay for Procurement / Supply Chain Executive with Diploma / Degree is $2,500. Of course, I don't expect having that amount since I'm an Expat but my expectation would be around $2,200-$2,300. Is this figure too high?

Source: https://www.adecco.com.sg/media/adecco- ... 202015.pdf

The salary range for a degree holder is what ever the degree holder is willing to work for. You are not under any obligation to take a job if it doesn't meet your minimum expectations. If you do so, you only have yourself to blame. Sorry, I would have just said "thanks, but no thanks. Hire a local for that salary if you can find one."

Addeco is giving you an average starting salary based on a lot of data accumulated annually. If it's the average that mean there are positions that are getting much higher and probably much lower, like yourself.


Question 2: Work Visa Eligibility

My first job in Singapore was with a multinational Freight Forwarding Company. The size of Singapore branch is 51-200 headcount. For this job, I was offered $2,200 and an Employment Pass. I checked with MoM and found out that I am actually not entitled to the Employment Pass since my pay is way wayyy below the minimum requirement. My position was just an Operation Assistant. How did the company applied for it? Did the company report my salary higher, but pay me less? I'm confused. Anyway, I left the company in a month period because I worked like 12-15 hours a day, with just 1 lunch break, 5.5 days job & no OT claims.

It sounds like you were on an S Pass, not a WP. The S pass is between the WP and the EP and minimum salary there 'was' 2000/mo and more recently 2200/mo. Employers have to pay levies on S pass holders just like WP holders.

For this new job (Procurement & Logistics Executive), I was offered a Work Permit instead, ideally I would like to have an Employment Pass for my future plannings. So is there any way for this cause I'm planning to stay with this current employer for at least a few years time.

If you are looking for EP level you will need to be offered at least $3,300/mo and come January this figure will be increased to $3600/mo (but you need to be able to meet the criteria and experience levels as well). If you have a year or two of relevant experience in that field, you will possibly need an even higher starting salary than the quoted amounts above as they are the absolute minimum requirements.

Thanks in advance for all your constructive feedbacks. I would really appreciate it.


sms

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Re: Need Help on some questions.

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:07 am

Kardin25 wrote:My concern is $1,800 consider as underpaying for a degree holder in Singapore?

I think you've answered your own question with the research you've done.

By the way, in principle, ideally (as a public policy objective), a foreign worker should command a higher salary than a similarly situated resident worker. With the possible exception of exempt sectors (e.g. domestic workers).

For this job, I was offered $2,200 and an Employment Pass. I checked with MoM and found out that I am actually not entitled to the Employment Pass since my pay is way wayyy below the minimum requirement.... How did the company applied for it? Did the company report my salary higher, but pay me less?

More likely they applied for an S Pass. The S Pass minimum is currently $2,200, so that fits. If your ID card said "S PASS" at the top, that's what happened. If it said "EMPLOYMENT PASS" then it seems your employer perpetrated a serious fraud. And cheated you out of at least 50% of what they paid you -- the Employment Pass minimum is $3,300 rising to $3,600 on January 1, 2017 -- and/or cheated the government out of foreign worker levies.

If there was fraud, I would report the fraud to the Ministry of Manpower. Opinions probably vary, but if/when the MoM catches the fraud -- fairly easy to do, eventually -- then they could consider you a collaborator in the fraud or at least have some doubts. Since all work passes and permits (and renewals) are discretionary, any such doubts about you aren't helpful. Conceivably that employer would need to make restitution to you, but even without that possibility I think I'd report the fraud (if there was fraud).

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Re: Need Help on some questions.

Postby Kardin25 » Wed, 17 Aug 2016 1:28 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Kardin25 wrote:Hey guys, I am new to Singapore and I have some questions that would like some clarifications. I'll try to provide information as detail as possible so bear with me.

My background:

Age: 23
Nationality: Malaysian Chinese
Education: UK Degree in International Business & Malaysia Degree in Logistics & Supply Chain Management
Work Experience: 8 months in Tesco Stores Malaysia. (Supply Chain Analyst)
Current Job Title: Procurement & Logistics Executive
Company Size: 12-50 Small Family Business Firm
Work Visa: Work Permit
Current Salary: $1,800

Question 1: Salary Concerns

My concern is $1,800 consider as underpaying for a degree holder in Singapore? I clearly understand that there are a LOTSSS of degree holders out there and having one doesn't make you special. But is there any certain like minimum salary range for it? I still consider myself as a fresh graduate given that I have less that 1 year experience. I checked with Addecco, the starting pay for Procurement / Supply Chain Executive with Diploma / Degree is $2,500. Of course, I don't expect having that amount since I'm an Expat but my expectation would be around $2,200-$2,300. Is this figure too high?

Source: https://www.adecco.com.sg/media/adecco- ... 202015.pdf

The salary range for a degree holder is what ever the degree holder is willing to work for. You are not under any obligation to take a job if it doesn't meet your minimum expectations. If you do so, you only have yourself to blame. Sorry, I would have just said "thanks, but no thanks. Hire a local for that salary if you can find one."

Addeco is giving you an average starting salary based on a lot of data accumulated annually. If it's the average that mean there are positions that are getting much higher and probably much lower, like yourself.


Question 2: Work Visa Eligibility

My first job in Singapore was with a multinational Freight Forwarding Company. The size of Singapore branch is 51-200 headcount. For this job, I was offered $2,200 and an Employment Pass. I checked with MoM and found out that I am actually not entitled to the Employment Pass since my pay is way wayyy below the minimum requirement. My position was just an Operation Assistant. How did the company applied for it? Did the company report my salary higher, but pay me less? I'm confused. Anyway, I left the company in a month period because I worked like 12-15 hours a day, with just 1 lunch break, 5.5 days job & no OT claims.

It sounds like you were on an S Pass, not a WP. The S pass is between the WP and the EP and minimum salary there 'was' 2000/mo and more recently 2200/mo. Employers have to pay levies on S pass holders just like WP holders.

For this new job (Procurement & Logistics Executive), I was offered a Work Permit instead, ideally I would like to have an Employment Pass for my future plannings. So is there any way for this cause I'm planning to stay with this current employer for at least a few years time.

If you are looking for EP level you will need to be offered at least $3,300/mo and come January this figure will be increased to $3600/mo (but you need to be able to meet the criteria and experience levels as well). If you have a year or two of relevant experience in that field, you will possibly need an even higher starting salary than the quoted amounts above as they are the absolute minimum requirements.

Thanks in advance for all your constructive feedbacks. I would really appreciate it.


sms


Thanks for your information. It definitely shed some light on my situation. Yeaaaa, I kinda accepted the job out of desperation so can't complaint much about it then, hah. For the last employer, I did in fact received an Employment Pass. So I think the only reason is the company may be pulling some strings behind the scene or whatever. Anyway, as long as it doesn't affect my next application then it's fine with me. Thanks again for your clarifications, cheers.

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Re: Need Help on some questions.

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 17 Aug 2016 2:20 pm

Kardin25 wrote:For the last employer, I did in fact received an Employment Pass. So I think the only reason is the company may be pulling some strings behind the scene or whatever.

There are no strings to pull except illegal ones. Here are/were the minimum fixed monthly salaries for Employment Passes:

January 1, 2017 onward: $3,600
January 1, 2014, through December 31, 2016: $3,300
January 1, 2012, through December 31, 2014: $3,000
July ??, 2011 through December 31, 2011: $2,800
?? through mid-2011: $2,500

There is a Training Employment Pass that has/had a lower minimum. But it's been a long time since $2,200/month would qualify even for that variant (if that's what you had).

If you were on an Employment Pass and did not receive at least the minimum fixed monthly salary, free and clear (i.e. without "kickbacks"), then you were a party to a fraud. Hopefully an unwitting party, but the Ministry of Manpower doesn't know that. (See below.)

Anyway, as long as it doesn't affect my next application then it's fine with me.

That's the point. If (or when) the unreported fraud is discovered, it is highly likely to affect your next application (or next renewal) -- and any future application for PR.(*) My recommendation is that, if you suspect fraud, you should report it. If a fraud occurred, the government has been illegally deprived of foreign worker levies and/or you've been deprived of thousands of dollars of income.

Now that you're aware of the problem, if you fail to report it you become a willing, knowing party to the fraud. It's up to you whether you want to "graduate" to that status.

(*) In a PR application ICA takes a look at the past few years of tax records (at least). If your tax records are inconsistent with your work pass, that's almost certainly disqualifying and could be much worse.
Last edited by BBCWatcher on Wed, 17 Aug 2016 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RE: Re: Need Help on some questions.

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 17 Aug 2016 2:24 pm

.
Thanks for your information. It definitely shed some light on my situation. Yeaaaa, I kinda accepted the job out of desperation so can't complaint much about it then, hah. For the last employer, I did in fact received an Employment Pass. So I think the only reason is the company may be pulling some strings behind the scene or whatever.
.


You don't pull strings in Singapore unlike... government servants lose their jobs if they helped anybody pull strings, for rewards or for free.



BBCWatcher wrote:There are no strings to pull except illegal ones. Here are/were the minimum fixed monthly salaries for Employment Passes:

January 1, 2017 onward: $3,600
January 1, 2014, through December 31, 2016: $3,300
January 1, 2012, through December 31, 2014: $3,000
July ??, 2011 through December 31, 2011: $2,800
?? through mid-2011: $2,500

There is a Training Employment Pass that has/had a lower minimum. But it's been a long time since $2,200/month would qualify even for that variant (if that's what you had).


Yeah yeah yeah but you over looked the fact the guy (or gal) is Malaysian ...

As for possible "unreported" fraud, why do you think MOM enforced compulsory bank payment for salary ?

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Re: RE: Re: Need Help on some questions.

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 17 Aug 2016 2:29 pm

ecureilx wrote:You don't pull strings in Singapore unlike....

^^^^ Agreed. For some supporting evidence, see this article.

Ecureilx, I am giving the original poster the benefit of the doubt. For now. I am not at all confident the Ministry of Manpower (or ICA) will be so generous if/when they first learn about this infringement from anybody else.

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Need Help on some questions.

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 17 Aug 2016 2:36 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:Ecureilx, I am giving the original poster the benefit of the doubt. For now. I am not at all confident the Ministry of Manpower (or ICA) will be so generous if/when they first learn about this infringement from anybody else.


No. Don't confuse the guy. I think you clarified enough.

You should ask somebody who employs Malaysians to clarify.

unfortunately I can't and won't put stuff here, stuff I can't support with well researched reference a-la yourself!


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