Singapore Expats Forum

Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9245
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: RE: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby x9200 » Sat, 13 Aug 2016 7:26 pm

stephanielau1992 wrote:8. The police asked me to send back the unknown source money to the unknown person without showing me any court legal documents.

I feel that the police should show me the court order to return the money, because I totally don't know the person who sent money to my bank account. The police cannot just ask me return back the money to an unknown person.Because there is no proof that the money belongs to the unknown person, even though the person has the receipt, but he may be the accomplice in the criminal case.
I really don't know what to do, and I lose so much money during the investigation period, nobody can help me to get back.


1. The police certainly checked this unknown person.
2. It's not your money.
3. Follow the police order. You don't need to have a court decision to return the money if you know the account No it arrived from.
4. Holding the money you may face criminal charges - people are prosecuted for not returning sunglasses found on the street.
5. Read the agreement with the bank - this is the source of your information what the bank can and what can not do with your account.

stephanielau1992
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat, 13 Aug 2016

Re: RE: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby stephanielau1992 » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 9:40 am

ecureilx wrote:
stephanielau1992 wrote:1. Whether a bank has to show the official document to customer if the bank wants to close or freeze a customer's savings bank account?

2. On the premise of no official written documents from police or relevant law enforcement departments, whether a bank has the right to close a customer's bank account?

3. Do the police have the right to ask me to return money back to an unknown person without any court order or official document?


1, no documents needed. They can freeze first and then let you run around. Banks follow MAS and Court instructions.

3, wait. What's that? Ill gotten money ?


whether the bank has the right to close or freeze a customer's bank account in the condition of no legal documents from Singapore law enforcement departments ????

stephanielau1992
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat, 13 Aug 2016

Re: RE: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby stephanielau1992 » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 10:54 am

x9200 wrote:
stephanielau1992 wrote:8. The police asked me to send back the unknown source money to the unknown person without showing me any court legal documents.

I feel that the police should show me the court order to return the money, because I totally don't know the person who sent money to my bank account. The police cannot just ask me return back the money to an unknown person.Because there is no proof that the money belongs to the unknown person, even though the person has the receipt, but he may be the accomplice in the criminal case.
I really don't know what to do, and I lose so much money during the investigation period, nobody can help me to get back.


1. The police certainly checked this unknown person.
2. It's not your money.
3. Follow the police order. You don't need to have a court decision to return the money if you know the account No it arrived from.
4. Holding the money you may face criminal charges - people are prosecuted for not returning sunglasses found on the street.
5. Read the agreement with the bank - this is the source of your information what the bank can and what can not do with your account.


Banks in accordance with the requirements of the police to freeze customer deposits, whether the related bank needs to show the police written documents to the customer?

PNGMK
Director
Director
Posts: 4896
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 10:59 am

Stephanie - I understand you believe you should be able to offset your losses with some of the 20k. Think of this another way - once that money has gone your sense of relief and karma will be much much better. Right now that money is not yours and is weighing you down.
I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.

stephanielau1992
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat, 13 Aug 2016

Re: RE: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby stephanielau1992 » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:01 am

x9200 wrote:
stephanielau1992 wrote:8. The police asked me to send back the unknown source money to the unknown person without showing me any court legal documents.

I feel that the police should show me the court order to return the money, because I totally don't know the person who sent money to my bank account. The police cannot just ask me return back the money to an unknown person.Because there is no proof that the money belongs to the unknown person, even though the person has the receipt, but he may be the accomplice in the criminal case.
I really don't know what to do, and I lose so much money during the investigation period, nobody can help me to get back.


1. The police certainly checked this unknown person.
2. It's not your money.
3. Follow the police order. You don't need to have a court decision to return the money if you know the account No it arrived from.
4. Holding the money you may face criminal charges - people are prosecuted for not returning sunglasses found on the street.
5. Read the agreement with the bank - this is the source of your information what the bank can and what can not do with your account.


Thanks very much for your reply. I feel you are really brilliant person, your advice is really useful for me.

stephanielau1992
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat, 13 Aug 2016

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby stephanielau1992 » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:18 am

PNGMK wrote:Stephanie - I understand you believe you should be able to offset your losses with some of the 20k. Think of this another way - once that money has gone your sense of relief and karma will be much much better. Right now that money is not yours and is weighing you down.



Thanks very much for your useful analysis. I don't want the unknown source money. but.......

Yes, the police have the right to ask me to make restitution, and I don't mind to return the money to the police station,but this unknown source money made me suffer a lot, closed my shop and lost a lot of money, I don't think I am responsible to send the unknown money to the so-called unknown accuser. if I don't listen to the police command order to transfer the money to the unknown person, I just leave the money inside the bank and insist on getting the court order to return the money. what consequences it will be?

BBCWatcher
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun, 13 Sep 2015

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby BBCWatcher » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:21 pm

I mystified why you feel it's your job to make any assessment about the party that transmitted the money to you. Let the police (and the bank) do their jobs.

It seems you have zero evidence that the other party has committed any criminal act. The money just landed in your account, and it's not yours. Why aren't you returning it to sender?

If SingPost attempts to deliver a package to you, and it's not your package, wouldn't you be returning that package to its sender? It's the same thing. Somebody sent you money that shouldn't have been sent to you. Now, maybe the sender cheats on his wife, doesn't floss every day, and didn't attend his daughter's 8th birthday party... but why is any of that any of your business? It's his money. Send it back. At least send it to the bank or to the police. It's not your money, and that's the only bottom line that matters. And you seem to be acting like an account holder that should have a frozen account! I don't get it.

stephanielau1992
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat, 13 Aug 2016

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby stephanielau1992 » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:40 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:I mystified why you feel it's your job to make any assessment about the party that transmitted the money to you. Let the police (and the bank) do their jobs.

It seems you have zero evidence that the other party has committed any criminal act. The money just landed in your account, and it's not yours. Why aren't you returning it to sender?

If SingPost attempts to deliver a package to you, and it's not your package, wouldn't you be returning that package to its sender? It's the same thing. Somebody sent you money that shouldn't have been sent to you. Now, maybe the sender cheats on his wife, doesn't floss every day, and didn't attend his daughter's 8th birthday party... but why is any of that any of your business? It's his money. Send it back. At least send it to the bank or to the police. It's not your money, and that's the only bottom line that matters. And you seem to be acting like an account holder that should have a frozen account! I don't get it.


Thanks very much for your reply. I have no intention to hold the money from the beginning, and I just want to get back my personal money inside my bank. I will return the unknown source money to the police.

Yes, the police have the right to ask me to make restitution, and I don't mind to return the money to the police station,but this unknown source money made me suffer a lot, closed my shop and lost a lot of money, I don't think I am responsible to send the unknown money to the so-called unknown accuser.

PNGMK
Director
Director
Posts: 4896
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 1:01 pm

I don't think we can help the OP. She's determined to end up in further strife.
I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.

BBCWatcher
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun, 13 Sep 2015

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby BBCWatcher » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 4:14 pm

Reading between the lines, you seem to be operating under the misassumption that your possible, speculative cause of action against somebody for triggering your financial problems is a valid, legal justification to avoid correcting the original problem (the mistaken -- let's assume that -- transfer of $20K to you).

In a word, no. That's not how the law works, at least not in Singapore (and not in most legal systems). Whatever cause of action you have (if any) you pursue (or not) as a separate matter, through the Small Claims Tribunals, for example. You aren't legally permitted to hold funds that aren't yours as "ransom" (or something very much like it), which is what you seem to be doing -- or at least you're very much acting in a manner that a reasonable person could interpret that way.

I agree with the posters upthread that it's far, far better (and in your interests) to keep the police on side (or at least neutral). Your present behavior is not helping achieve that goal. Although you have the legal right to await a court order (or worse), as far as I can tell you have no obligation to wait for a court order. It's very, very hard for me to imagine why you wouldn't immediately follow the police's instructions in this situation.

stephanielau1992
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat, 13 Aug 2016

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby stephanielau1992 » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 5:40 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:Reading between the lines, you seem to be operating under the misassumption that your possible, speculative cause of action against somebody for triggering your financial problems is a valid, legal justification to avoid correcting the original problem (the mistaken -- let's assume that -- transfer of $20K to you).

In a word, no. That's not how the law works, at least not in Singapore (and not in most legal systems). Whatever cause of action you have (if any) you pursue (or not) as a separate matter, through the Small Claims Tribunals, for example. You aren't legally permitted to hold funds that aren't yours as "ransom" (or something very much like it), which is what you seem to be doing -- or at least you're very much acting in a manner that a reasonable person could interpret that way.

I agree with the posters upthread that it's far, far better (and in your interests) to keep the police on side (or at least neutral). Your present behavior is not helping achieve that goal. Although you have the legal right to await a court order (or worse), as far as I can tell you have no obligation to wait for a court order. It's very, very hard for me to imagine why you wouldn't immediately follow the police's instructions in this situation.



I trust the police of course, but I did not receive any official documents from police and my bank is still "on hold" (All money on hold). The bank informed me that they are going to close my account ah.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9245
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby x9200 » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 5:54 pm

Did you ask the bank why they were going to close your account?

stephanielau1992
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat, 13 Aug 2016

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby stephanielau1992 » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 6:03 pm

x9200 wrote:Did you ask the bank why they were going to close your account?


Thanks very much for your reply. it's really painful to accept the fact, the bank frozen my personal saving account for almost 10 months without a reason or any documents, and they are now going to close my account (still have no reason or show me any document at all). it's really very very ridiculous to act this way. it's very rude and irresponsible. it makes me very difficult to trust the bank any more, I feel very unsafe to put money inside.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9245
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby x9200 » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 6:07 pm

Yes, you mentioned it.
Once again: Did you ask the bank why they were going to close your account?

PNGMK
Director
Director
Posts: 4896
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013

Re: Please help to answer some legal questions, Thanks in advance

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 7:38 pm

The bank may have declined to tell her. Have you opened another account with another bank Stephanie?
I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Careers & Jobs in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest