Pass for Newborn baby

[sundaymorningstaple]

Any of the other 5 that beat Singapore, naturally.

[BBCWatcher]

The humor is well noted, SMS -- thanks.

....So, X9200, are you recommending that Krkap's wife move to and deliver in Japan, Iceland, or Monaco, the only three countries in the world (also with "generally excellent" care) that have lower infant mortality rates than Singapore's? If that's what you're recommending, I have no objection. Perhaps those three governments do, but I don't. Or, if that's not what you're recommending, what are you recommending that Krkap's wife do?

On edit: I don't recommend maternity or neonatal care here, if avoidable.

[x9200]

BBWC, it's not about recommending or not. It's about managing expectations. When I arrived here I also expected some generally excellent services. Unfortunately these expectations have been verified by experience, mine, number of friends, some really tragic stories included. Many too many to call something generally excellent. I consider it average at best based on my experience from 3 different countries where I lived a bit longer.

[Mad Scientist]

[BBCWatcher]

OK, so you have anecdotal evidence that pregnancy-related care in Singapore is not always excellent, and per your quality assessments. That's fine! Why didn't you (politely) say so, and say just that? Something like this:

"In my personal experience -- and among some friends and family and their experiences -- we've been disappointed with pregnancy-related care in Singapore. We haven't fit into the 'generally' part of BBCWatcher's characterization."

Simple enough, isn't it? My goodness, it's not hard to have a friendly discussion!

....OK, among those three other countries, which one would you rank #1 ahead of Singapore? And why would you rank it #1, in your experience?

[x9200]

Oh I said it. I said it was based on experience. Also "anecdotal" is not the right word, because it is based on facts. I can prove beyond any reasonable doubts most of the things I know. If somebody was given expired medication, got sick and the incident was reported to MOH with no response ever received, it's not an anecdotal evidence (one of the milder cases of the excellence).

OP, just in case you consider, the opinion of BBCWatcher on the quality is just his opinion and from some other people experience who actually delivered in Singapore this quality could be far from excellent even in the top private hospitals.

What is unfriendly in it?

Talking about friendliness, you know what is the problem that at least tuns me a bit confrontational? It is your semi-arrogant manner you respond. Take for example this "anecdotal" evidence. This word is not really that neutral in this case. It's like you would say, oh the guy heard something and have some beliefs. Not exactly.
But this is all irrelevant and a likely attempt to deviate from the main heated discussion objective. In other words, you didn't prove your general excellence claim.

For the ranking, sorry I am a bit lost here, what those 3 countries? You mean 5 from the WHO report?

[ecureilx]

Oh I said it. I said it was based on experience. Also "anecdotal" is not the right word, because it is based on facts. I can prove beyond any reasonable doubts most of the things I know.

Not rubbing it in (seriously .. ) but I do agree with your assessment - and that's not based on newspaper stories ..

My additional 2 cents is, in public hospitals, those upper class / private consult patients get bit better treatment + huge bill ...

[BBCWatcher]

You mentioned you have experience with the healthcare systems in three other countries for pregnancy-related care. Which other country would you rank #1 on your list and why?

[x9200]

You mentioned you have experience with the healthcare systems in three other countries for pregnancy-related care. Which other country would you rank #1 on your list and why?

Poland (from the 3), assuming I have money to go private. There is a huge pool of really skilled and knowledgeable doctors. That's why so many of them are now working all over EU. Basically there is a good choice present around and unlike in Singapore reviews/opinions done by patients are often posted publicly. Here, one would be sued for any negative comment immediately. Surely this doesn't help to improve the quality (of any service, not only medical). Infrastructure is generally good, prices not that high. The main problem is the public healthcare, free, but one has to wait sometimes for years. Literarily.

Nb. for the WHO ranking, the criteria (indicators) are related to the system - I used this word, but it is a bit misleading, a better one would be overall service quality, what I see more related to the actual medical services.

WHO's assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).

The problem with such indicators is that firstly, other non-direct medical factors may play significant role (here, for example food, climate, finances, distribution of medical services) and the satisfaction is a very subjective indicator for a population where a large part of this population knows no other "system" or knows only worse systems. This is specifically the case in Singapore where the health system is generally not bad (my subjective perception) so people assume this is a good standard. What I am talking about: do Singaporeans (as per average) think they driving standards are bad? Looking at the WHO indicators it is pretty obvious Singapore had to rank very high, but is this really reflecting the quality of medical services? Whether the doctors are knowledgeable and do right things, complications, effectiveness of the administered therapies etc etc.

[x9200]

My additional 2 cents is, in public hospitals, those upper class / private consult patients get bit better treatment + huge bill ...

It is probably better availability (mostly waiting time) of the treatment but the infrastructure, instrumentation, medical services quality, in my very limited experience with the public health - not that significantly different. Anyway, just visually, all the public hospitals we ever visited made on us much better impression than one of the so called top private hospital where my wife delivered. It was a bit like a ran down condo/hotel.

[ecureilx]

Basically there is a good choice present around and unlike in Singapore reviews/opinions done by patients are often posted publicly. Here, one would be sued for any negative comment immediately.

I may disagree on the above, when it comes to public hospitals here. Can't comment on private hospitals.

A lot of patient complaints, anonymous and not - get investigated and doctors get warned or censured - which, I suspect, causes doctors to be extremely cautious and over treat.

There are cases where doctors subject patients to needless tests and surgeries and more, than face the medical enquiry.

I recall a case where a friend with a small 2 cm heat boil was put under anesthesia and operated upon, and one night stay in SGH, and a Indian graduate from AIIMS quipped such surgeries in India are done by regular neighborhood clinics with local anesthesia for a fraction of the cost.

Probably that's something lacking here. Exposure. Like Polish doctors in Europe, Singapore too scouts good Indian doctors due to their tough experience...

[x9200]

Ecu. you are likely talking about filing complaints, I am talking about public subjective reviews on websites specifically dedicated and designed to rank the doctors by their patients.

https://www.znanylekarz.pl/placowki/dobry-lekarz
http://doszpitala.pl/ (ranking of the hospitals)

probably hundreds of sites like these two. Both individuals and clinics are ranked directly by the members of the public.

[NZinSG]

I recall a case where a friend with a small 2 cm heat boil was put under anesthesia and operated upon, and one night stay in SGH, and a Indian graduate from AIIMS quipped such surgeries in India are done by regular neighborhood clinics with local anesthesia for a fraction of the cost.

They may have needed the hospital stay in order to fall within their Medical insurance - it would have fallen under 'hospitilisation', and then covered. If it was a simple surgery at a GP office then they would have had to pay for it themselves, especially if their medical coverage is more towards the basic end.

As for Singapore Hospitals, I'm less than impressed. We delivered at a Public hospital (private consult, Ward A) which is entirely geared to women and children and their were several glaring issues which left a sour taste in my mouth, especially for the cost. (Ward A). Post delivery care was lacking, doctors followed guidelines (which were not exactly best practice but got rid of their liability).

Personally, I would never deliver a baby in Singapore again - I don't know if Private hospitals are better, and given the delivery circumstances we encountered we would likely have been transferred to the hospital we went to anyway, but the fact we went to one of the top women's hospitals and they failed on so many obvious things pisses me off. Future health of my son was left up to a dice roll as to whether he became another statistic or not. They do reactionary care as opposed to preventive care, even in the face of medical research saying that the baby is high-risk and what the best course of action is to avoid complications etc.

I don't know where OP is from, so I can't comment on the level of care here vs their home country, but I wish you all the best OP, no matter which route you choose, and I hope you and your family can make it through these stressful times ahead with a positive experiece.

My additional 2 cents is, in public hospitals, those upper class / private consult patients get bit better treatment + huge bill ...

It is probably better availability (mostly waiting time) of the treatment but the infrastructure, instrumentation, medical services quality, in my very limited experience with the public health - not that significantly different.

Agreed.

[x9200]

I have a friend who delivered in a public hospital twice and she was happy with it. On the other hand, if my wife had to deliver again and we had a reasonable relocation choice we also would never deliver in Singapore. Many things were wrong to very wrong.

[cittakaro]

Deliver baby in Malaysia, Rm 65 only