Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

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Hardy
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Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by Hardy » Fri, 05 Aug 2016 1:15 am

Hi, I have a question which I am not to sure about? I am originally from the UK and have moved to Singapore and am now living with my wife. I am on a LTVP and applying for PR. Unfortunately when I was younger I had a drug problem with heroin and subsequently I ended up stealing for my addiction. I got sent to jail numerous times, mainly for theft and a couple of times for possession of small amounts of heroin. I am now totally clean and have not been in trouble for over 5 years. In the UK my criminal record is declared as spent but I'm not to sure whether it is declared spent here or not. An example of my worst conviction is
Imprisonment 3 months concurrent
Imprisonment 3 months concurrent
Imprisonment 3 months.
So are my criminal convictions classed as spent or not as I am now looking for work.
Who can I ask about this?
I have looked on the forum already but cannot find a relevant answer.
To be honest I'm surprised they even let me in the country.
Thanks :)

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x9200
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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by x9200 » Fri, 05 Aug 2016 7:25 am

Note, what they typically ask in various application forms is not whether the applicant has a criminal record but whether the applicant has ever been convicted in a court of law in any country. I believe this question is also included when applying for LTVP, so what did you answer there?
Is your wife Singaporean?

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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by BBCWatcher » Fri, 05 Aug 2016 12:39 pm

You answer the question asked, truthfully, or decline to answer. What's the exact question you're being asked (quoted verbatim)?

If you're asking about the question asked when applying for PR, the PR application (ICA Form 4, Part B) asks "Have you or has any one of the persons included in this application ever: ... (d) Been convicted of or currently charged with a crime or offence in ... ii) Any other country?" Based on your description, you would answer Yes to that question and, as instructed, "provide a detailed explanation on a separate sheet of paper."

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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by Hardy » Fri, 05 Aug 2016 3:09 pm

Thanks for both of your reply's. The job which I have applied for just asked whether I had a criminal record and that's it. (I have noticed as well they do put when I have applied for other jobs, have you been convicted in a court of law in any country like you said x9200). I put down no as my record is spent in the UK. I have looked online and I'm not 100% if my record here is classed as spent or not. I have declared my record to the ICA and everything is ok there, the problem I have is when I apply for work. I had an interview the other day and they said they will phone the ICA and ask if I have a record and then speak to MOM and get them to send out a letter of concent. If my record does still stand here in Singapore I would like to know so I know what I'm up against. My wife is a Singaporean.
I think I will speak to a solicitor and find out for definite. Thanks again :)

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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by x9200 » Fri, 05 Aug 2016 3:55 pm

Just to make it clear, if they ask for a record, then IMHO if spent, there is no need to declare anything. But if they ask whether one was ever convicted, then regardless the record spent it should be IMHO, declared.

If ICA knows about your troubled past and is fine with it, then the only problem with MoM I could expect if they consider the job you are applying for as a sensitive one (security, dealing with money, with drugs etc.).

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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by Hardy » Sat, 06 Aug 2016 7:34 am

Ok. thanks for your help x9200.

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PNGMK
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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 08 Aug 2016 10:10 am

If my record was 'spent' I would not declare either a conviction or a record unless I was applying for a position where I believed HR had the resources to 'piece the veil' on the confidentiality of the records in my home country - that would be (in Singapore) limited to Australian govt police and four letter agencies and possible the Singapore MHA, MFA, SPF and SAF. I certainly would not declare it to a private employer. Note some private employers use agencies such as XXX to do background checks and I suspect they are engaging in less than upright behavior in obtaining records.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by x9200 » Mon, 08 Aug 2016 2:18 pm

For the private employers I don't think there is any obligation to answer such questions, but if one decides to answer, then I am not sure if this is completely safe to make a "mistake". For any government body, especially when applying for passes, I would double ensure they get what they want. No harm to call them and ask.

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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by pecheur » Mon, 24 May 2021 5:56 pm

Its been a long time since your last post, wondering if you managed getting your PR? Have you had any issues in PR application? May I know the documents that you have submitted from UK which helped you in PR application related to that incident

Mine was just a community order for a help request minor offence, planning to apply for a work visa in SG. Wondering if SG MOM immigration dept. will outright reject work visa applications for anyone with past conviction (minor offence) even if its SPENT already in UK and "No live trace" cert proof provided. Will they consider approving based on case by case basis anyone with SPENT conviction?

I will answer truthfully to whatever questions asked, Have you ever been convicted in a court of law in any country? yes

Any details much appreciated.
Last edited by pecheur on Tue, 25 May 2021 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

jumbo
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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by jumbo » Mon, 24 May 2021 11:05 pm

Do not answer yes if there is no way to prove it. Have seen this cause hassles with MoM. If it is truly spent, it is likely off your record. Best bet is get the most detailed and comprehensive record you can before answering the question. Do not say "yes" if that document is blank, because when they ask for additional documents to support the time in court, you probably won't be able to supply anything that actually proves you ever went to court, and the process will stall.

In the instance I saw, MoM asked for proof that it was spent! By definition, that was impossible to prove. It was an absurd circular drama that they never needed to know about.

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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by pecheur » Tue, 25 May 2021 4:52 am

Thanks for your info.

I can understand what you mean by: MoM asked for proof that it was spent! By definition, that was impossible to prove.... as the document will be blank.
Not sure either of the exact document required by MoM. Only when I go thru the application I might find the exact document requirements and the exact questions.

I am clueless and a complete novice. Too much to lose if I have answered incorrectly...
Thanks for sharing your experience

One question still ponders, does MoM approve work visa for convictions SPENT already or do they outright reject anyone who had criminal history in the past even if its SPENT already. Incase if they are approving on case by case basis and not rejecting outright, certainly I will have a greater chance getting through.

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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by jumbo » Tue, 25 May 2021 8:14 am

At a minimum, you should already possess the most comprehensive government and police criminal record check you can get from your home country. Do not submit your visa application until you know what is printed on that document. And then think long and hard about admitting to anything that is not listed.

The moment you say "spent conviction" they may/will ask you to prove it. So before you apply, try and get an official letter or document from your court stating that it is spent. If you can't get that.... ? Then what?

I understand your hesitation.

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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 25 May 2021 7:12 pm

Good post Jumbo and I emphatically agree. Never admit to anything that cannot be proven on paper. Never create a cul de sac for yourself.

As a general life pro tip you should obtain criminal clearance certs for all countries you've spent time in before leaving that country if possible.

In the old days and in certain countries I would recommend buying a cop a coffee to see what he can find out about you internally. Unfortunately I doubt 'spent' convictions are really removed from the record in most places.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

pecheur
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Re: Are my criminal convictions declared spent?

Post by pecheur » Tue, 25 May 2021 9:18 pm

jumbo wrote:
Tue, 25 May 2021 8:14 am
At a minimum, you should already possess the most comprehensive government and police criminal record check you can get from your home country. Do not submit your visa application until you know what is printed on that document. And then think long and hard about admitting to anything that is not listed.

The moment you say "spent conviction" they may/will ask you to prove it. So before you apply, try and get an official letter or document from your court stating that it is spent. If you can't get that.... ? Then what?

I understand your hesitation.
thanks for your info. As you have suggested I will request for a official letter probably in local court or from any authorized agency to say its Spent and will have it as a back up document to avoid last minute issues :)

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