Ex-SPR, LOC?

[Kiyosumi]

Hi all,

First post on this forum on a particular situation, haven't been able to find any threads that is quite as similar as decided to create an account to post this.

Just a bit of background:

Nephew: 27 this year
Qualifications: MSc, Full time university in the UK
Experience: 3 years of professional work in the financial services industry
Marital Status: Married to a Singaporean
Status: Ex-SPR (This is key)

My brother migrated his family to Singapore back in the 90's and his son became a SPR (Son was born overseas). His son holds a British passport from birth and part of the obligation to retain the passport was for him to return to the UK before the age of 18. My brother decided to renounce my nephew's PR status and moved him to the UK to complete his studies. My brother still retains his PR status with along with his wife, although his son is now no longer a SPR.

Now the current question/situation is that my nephew wants to come back to Singapore to work. I know there have been numerous threads on this forum where it is clear that ex-SPRs are not welcomed back to Singapore to work easily. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on whether his marriage to a Singaporean changes anything.

Now, it is certain that questions will be raised as to whether his marriage was for his intent on returning to Singapore to work. My brother and nephew both knows this and my nephew's "argument" is that he has been with his spouse since Secondary school days in Singapore where they both met. He insists that he has evidence and can prove this relationship was genuine and that they have been together for 14 years (I trust him on this point).

My question is, do you think there's any possibility of my nephew being granted permission to work in Singapore at all? I've been advising him that it is very very unlikely but my nephew insists on trying and my brother is too stubborn to talk some sense into my nephew. I was hoping that some clear recommendation and guidance from this forum might shed some light into this matter.

I'm not completely for or against my nephew attempting to come back to Singapore (honestly, it does not bother me very much) - but I would like to at least help my brother out with some information.

Having done my own research, maybe my nephew could get a LOC from any prospective employer to work in SG ? One thing is certain, he would never get PR status again having renounced it before serving NS.

Looking forward to any response and insight!

[sundaymorningstaple]

How old was he when he renounced his SPR?

[JR8]

His son holds a British passport from birth and part of the obligation to retain the passport was for him to return to the UK before the age of 18.

Just for the record, I've never heard of a Brit in such circumstances having their passport cancelled. Furthermore Brits are entitled to have dual citizenship. I realise this is background data to your question, but just wanted to mention that in case it is of relevance.

[Kiyosumi]

Hi SMS, if I remember correctly, my nephew was 15 when my brother renounced his PR for him.

I think Secondary 3.

JR8; Thanks for your response. I'm unsure as to what the exact circumstances are, but that's the background I got from my brother. I've never heard of any actual cases where the British citizenship was challenged but it might have something to do with my nephew haven't never been in the UK and holding British citizenship at that time.

[sundaymorningstaple]

As he hadn't had his callup at the time he shouldn't have any problems with social visit passes, but I doubt seriously whether he will ever be given PR again, and most probably, as in the case I related above, even obtaining a work visa as he parents are still PRs, it puts paid to the fact that the whole thing was a way to avoid NS. The Singapore Government has a very, very long memory.

His marital status will probably have no bearing on his ability to get a pass at all. In fact its generally more difficut for the foreign male to get an ltvp with a local spouse than vice versa.

[Kiyosumi]

Many thanks for your input SMS, that certainly paints a clearer picture for my nephew and I can advise him accordingly.

In regards to the point about Letter of consent that my nephew mentioned; is it any easier for him to be granted that instead of a LTVP? He seems to think that he has a higher chance of being granted a LOC and thinks that there's less of a barrier to getting that.

In terms of normal social visit passes, i don't think he has faced any issues thus far as he frequently comes back to Singapore to visit family and always gets given a 3-month allowance (please do correct me if I'm referring to the wrong type of social visit pass).

Thanks!

[sundaymorningstaple]

He has to be on a LTVP/LTVP+ or a dependent's pass (if the spouse were an EP holder). If he cannot get the LTVP he will not be able to apply for the LOC (Except in the case where he's already on a work visa of some sort. In other words he HAS to be able to get a residency visa of some sort (this is any visa which allow someone to stay longer then the standard SVP (social visit pass). So, no, there isn't going to be a LoC, if afraid.

The 90 visa is a standard SVP for some 1st world contries, like the US, UK Aus, Canada, etc., etc. Those countries also offer the same to Singaporean citizens as well. But it IS only a temporary social visit pass and a LoC cannot be gotten while on one of those.

[Kiyosumi]

Brilliant, thanks for clearing up my confusions.

I shall advise accordingly. It seems like the chances are quite slim and he shouldn't keep his hopes up too much.

Would you by any chance know of any successful applications of LTVP while my nephew is still based overseas?

Reading into some of the previous archived threads, there were advice given that if both the SC and spouse are based in and work overseas, they should send an email to the embassy to request for an overseas application.

I don't know if this is accurate or if indeed the embassy allows such applications.

Thanks once again for the fountain of knowledge found in this forum. Greatly appreciate all the help and advice thus far.

[sundaymorningstaple]

With his background, no, I cannot say that I have. Only the opposite as I have indicated. I don't know about Singapore embassy/missions. They may have to contact the one closest to them and ask. Or, check MFA's website (www.MFA.gov.sg) it may turn up something.

[PNGMK]

This will be interesting to see come out. In my purely personal opinion he will not succeed in obtaining permission to reside or work full time in Singapore. The negativity (fairly or unfairly) around people skirting the NS obligation makes this a touchy topic and as I read it your nephew would have been second generation PR and fully liable for NS even though his parents did renounce his PR in the correct manner (and noting his parents are not SC). Sadly I'm afraid he will become another wannabe resident held back by choices he didn't have control over. The kiss of death will be a note referring to 'unresolved issues with the CMPB".

[Kiyosumi]

I do agree with you PNGMK.

I can see from the government's perspective how they would not allow individuals to skirt their NS obligations but on the other hand, it hurts to see my nephew miss out on the possible opportunity of living in Singapore with his wife and settling down and having kids in this country.

His wife's family are based in Singapore, all Singaporean citizens and I was just curious as to whether their genuine relationship since the tender age of 13 would be a swinging factor.

But based on my own research and individual opinion, I'm guessing the government will not bend the rules and it will still be highly improbable that he will get that LOC.. Although from his perspective, he's going down the "no harm trying" route.

[PNGMK]

The real issues with this have come apparent with the hordes (no joke) of Indian SPR's sending their male children home for an education and then wanting to bring them back in for whatever without serving NS. The gahmen had to crack down.

[Kiyosumi]

That is true and I agree with your sentiments.

From a personal biased view because he is family after all, it is just a shame that a decision that was not his own eventually sealed the future for him which is quite unfortunate.

However, I cannot blame my brother for doing what he did back then as he believed that was the best option for his son to retain the British citizenship and to complete his education overseas.

I am pretty sure my nephew will still go ahead with the applications in hopes that there might be a slither of chance that all the circumstances combined in addition to his marriage with a SC might grant him the LTVP.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Actually, the LoC is ONLY available and created for the trailing spouses and more recently for the Spouse of a Singapore Citizen or PR. Without those anchors, the LoC is not even available.

[Kiyosumi]

Ah yes, I believe it is both me and my nephew's confusion.

It seems the correct visa would be the LTVP.

Although now that the LoC is valid for the trailing spouse of a Singapore Citizen as well, wouldn't that make my nephew eligible?

Just to clear things up, my nephew is an ex-SPR who had his SPR status renounced before the age of 15 by his parents (therefore, was not called up to NS yet and did not serve).

He married his "childhood sweetheart" who he met in Secondary school and his wife is a Singapore born and bred SC.

Based on the above info and what has been said in this thread, should he be eligible for both the LTVP and LoC? (Obviously barring the fact that he renounced PR and did not serve - which plays a big part and most likely would affect his chances of getting any visas).