Singapore Expats Forum

More PR Issues

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
Researcher2000
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More PR Issues

Postby Researcher2000 » Wed, 03 Aug 2016 4:22 pm

Hello,

Thank you for starting this forum which is very informative.

I have some questions which I hope you can help answer:

1. If a PR serves NS, they will be offered citizenship after that. What happens if he turns it down? Will he be blacklisted for life?

2. If a PR serves NS, then lives abroad for 5 years, he may lose his PR. Are there any case studies of this? What would be the criteria for regaining PR?

3. If someone applies for PR as an adult, gets it and receives a letter inviting him to become a citizen, but does not respond, what are the implications? This was 20 years ago. Upon a recent renewal, he was given a brochure on the benefits of citizenship. Does this count as "turning down citizenship?" Will he be blacklisted?

4. Friends are PRs but didn't apply for PR for their two sons, who are on student passes in International School. Does that mean after the age of 21 their sons can never live or work here again, as all passes will be denied?

5. Or does that only apply to those who went to local school here?

6. If their sons offer to serve NS after university, is that even possible and could they live here again?

Many thanks for your help!

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ecureilx
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Re: RE: More PR Issues

Postby ecureilx » Wed, 03 Aug 2016 4:31 pm

Researcher2000 wrote: 1. If a PR serves NS, they will be offered citizenship after that. What happens if he turns it down? Will he be blacklisted for life?!


Serve NS and get citizenship offered? You need to improve your research.

Those days are long gone...

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Re: More PR Issues

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Aug 2016 5:25 pm

In answer to your question, No. But your options to apply for citizenship may well be affected should you apply again later. But then again maybe not, depending on what you are bringing to the table.

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Re: More PR Issues

Postby BBCWatcher » Wed, 03 Aug 2016 7:40 pm

Responding to the other questions....

Researcher2000 wrote:2. If a PR serves NS, then lives abroad for 5 years, he may lose his PR. Are there any case studies of this? What would be the criteria for regaining PR?

If any PR is outside Singapore without a valid Re-Entry Permit (REP), PR status is lost. ICA evaluates PR re-applications based on the then-current (future) criteria. There aren't too many former PRs who have regained PR, although there are reportedly a few. If a former PR (or citizen) withdrew CPF funds then he/she must restore those funds, with interest, to reacquire PR status.

4. Friends are PRs but didn't apply for PR for their two sons, who are on student passes in International School. Does that mean after the age of 21 their sons can never live or work here again, as all passes will be denied?

Not necessarily, but, as with all foreigners, they certainly shouldn't count on anything immigration-related in Singapore. Moreover, I wouldn't give their parents terrific odds of becoming citizens.

5. Or does that only apply to those who went to local school here?

The answer is the same.

6. If their sons offer to serve NS after university, is that even possible and could they live here again?

I don't see how that would be possible. They're not PRs, and there's no basis for granting them PR status. Their parents cannot sponsor them since they're no longer minors (I assume).

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Re: More PR Issues

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Aug 2016 8:36 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:Responding to the other questions....

Researcher2000 wrote:4. Friends are PRs but didn't apply for PR for their two sons, who are on student passes in International School. Does that mean after the age of 21 their sons can never live or work here again, as all passes will be denied?


Not necessarily, but, as with all foreigners, they certainly shouldn't count on anything immigration-related in Singapore. Moreover, I wouldn't give their parents terrific odds of becoming citizens.


This one I can say with pretty much certainty that the odds of coming back here to work are virtually nil. I've watch just this scenario develop over the past 11 years by my boss and his son while the son was still in Singapore at an International School. To add a little bit more, the father in this case is both a Singapore Citizen and a card carrying PAP member who has been courted off & on for the last 7 or 8 years by the PAP to run in a GRC where his companies (currently 4) are all located. The boy's mother is an Eastern European SPR. The boy and his sister were both born in the UK. The girl has SPR as it's not an issue and she left to go back to the UK to read law at Cambridge, she's back now and has been made GM of our main company. The son was never made a PR and stayed on a Student's pass till he finished his schooling here and then went to the UK and did his B.Sc & M.Sc in Civil engineering. I told his father what was going to happen 8 years ago before he did it, but he figured it would be no problem as he was a PAP member.

Son's been back for over a year now) but has been doing visa runs back to the UK or to our new company (where he's been made the MD in another Asean country so he's spending several weeks there and then comes back here for several weeks on a SVP Every time we file for an employment pass it's rejected with the note that he has to clear some outstanding issues with the CMPB before they will entertain any sort of application for a residency visa of any kind, Employment or LTVP. It's a dark alley you don't want to go down.

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Re: More PR Issues

Postby Researcher2000 » Thu, 11 Aug 2016 2:18 pm

Thank you so much for your replies, especially SMS.

If that is the case, SMS, then I am surprised that they are not more vocal about it. Why wait till the child has become an adult and cannot do anything about it to let him know that he has been excluded from being able to live here? I suppose they would want the discretion to consider it on a case by case basis. Does the "outstanding issues with the CMPB" mean that he will be eventually be doing military service as a condition to eg becoming a citizen?

I hear that now the mantra is "Child of citizen must become a citizen." So, after a year or two on a LTSVP or student pass, all passes are denied and the child has to leave SG within a month or apply for citizenship. Purely anecdotal, of course.

SMS, the case you cited was that of a child of a citizen, which seems to be in a category of its own.

1. What about male children of PRs who have never been made PRs, as in the case cited in the above OP? Does it make a difference if they went to International School or MOE schools?

2. Also, in recent years, there were a number of children (both male and female) who were born to PRs and were denied PR multiple times. Presumably because they are not economically contributing, so it would be a "waste" for them to become PRs when they have been trying to keep the numbers down. When they reach adulthood I suppose they will have to apply to stay on on their own merits if that's what they want to do.

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Re: More PR Issues

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 11 Aug 2016 3:52 pm

Researcher2000 wrote:I hear that now the mantra is "Child of citizen must become a citizen." So, after a year or two on a LTSVP or student pass, all passes are denied and the child has to leave SG within a month or apply for citizenship. Purely anecdotal, of course.

I have no anecdotal evidence of that, although they would have to change the constitution I would think. As long as a child is born outside of Singapore, say in either the other parent's country (where they would be citizens by birth) or in a 3rd country where they would have a choice. Singapore would have to change the laws on dual citizenship (as I understand it, if the child is born here they HAVE to be a citizen but can also be dual status until the age of majority. If born outside of the country they can opt out of Singapore citizenship if they take up citizenship in the other parent's country. They can have their foreign passports stamped with right of entry and avoid NS (males) altogether. But, the government is vindictive and will make you pay for the ruse by refusing to allow the child work when they become an adult (and fair enough, if you ask me - it helps to stop the abuse).

SMS, the case you cited was that of a child of a citizen, which seems to be in a category of its own.

1. What about male children of PRs who have never been made PRs, as in the case cited in the above OP? Does it make a difference if they went to International School or MOE schools?

Same thing. If you enjoyed being a PR here (husband and wife) and you have a male offspring and you deliberately keep him on a foreign passport only and put him into the International School, but all the while enjoying the comfort and safety that Singapore offers, then Singapore has every right to stop them from eating any of the fruit that they didn't help to grow 'once it matures'. However, there is a way to get them out if you leave Singapore and give up your PR (by the numbers before the age of 13) but at the same time the parents must be leaving as well as otherwise, it's pretty obvious why it's being done, isn't it.

2. Also, in recent years, there were a number of children (both male and female) who were born to PRs and were denied PR multiple times. Presumably because they are not economically contributing, so it would be a "waste" for them to become PRs when they have been trying to keep the numbers down. When they reach adulthood I suppose they will have to apply to stay on on their own merits if that's what they want to do.

This situation has been brought on by scheming PRs from certain 3rd world countries. In order to rectify this situation and maybe get some of the baggage out of Singapore by not giving the children of PRs PR status, this puts a strain on the family. Additionally, once the child reaches majority they will have to leave Singapore as they will not be able to get any type of residency. Certain countries males cannot do without their mothers so they will, if they have to leave Singapore permanently except for periodic visits, probably tend to pull the PR parents away from Singapore as well. This is long term and possibly far fetched, but if though about over say a 15 year program will work great in reducing certain segments of the population that have increased beyond comfort levels of the powers that be here. Obviously this is purely speculation on my part but it wouldn't be the first time something I've guessed at, over the years on this board, became reality.


Sorry about the length (at least I'm addressing the topic and not departing from your queries) ;-)


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