Dual Citizen SG + MY

[calvinkwoo30001]

Hi, Can any have any experience or advise on my issue?

My wife is Singporean and I am Malaysian - SPR.
My kids will be deliver at Singapore this coming September 2016.

I priority my baby citizenship as Singaporean but because my mother at Malaysia will take care of baby until my kids 2 years old, so can i have my baby with dual citizenship until she was 21 to decide her citizenship?

[Siv]

Simple answer. No. Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship.

I think....:p

[PNGMK]

Your child could be Singaporen at birth and live in MY using a visa (of some sort) I guess.

[BBCWatcher]

A child born in Singapore to a Singaporean parent will be a Singaporean citizen when the birth is registered, from birth. That's easy.

Every country can decide who is and who is not its citizen. You are certainly free to work with the Malaysian High Commission to try to get Malaysian citizenship documented for your child. It appears that's possible, from what I can tell.

Yes, it's true, under present law neither country tolerates dual (or multiple) citizenships well. But it's up to each country to decide what to do about that, if anything. Yes, usually such countries, if they know, will require their young adult citizens, once they reach adulthood, to make a citizenship decision. In practice, some people quietly maintain their dual or multiple citizenships despite governmental hostility. (That "quiet" approach might or might not be a crime under the laws of the country hostile to dual citizenship.)

Note that dual (or multiple) citizens have the same obligations and responsibilities as every other citizen, to every country of citizenship. That includes national service, as a notable example. Very rarely one country's laws can be in conflict with another's -- war would be the ultimate legal conflict -- and that makes things "interesting" for dual citizens. That said, children don't have too many legal obligations, so this potential problem really only crops up at about age 18 if it crops up.

[Siv]

Dude Malaysia does NOT allow dual citizenship. Period.

The only way that is even possible is for those who take up another citizenship and just don't inform Malaysia about it. Like the thousands and thousands of those residing in Singapore and Australia currently and using the passport to their advantage as and when necessary haha.

In this case it's a newborn so he's going to be asked questions when registering the birth. I'm not saying it's impossible, just darn difficult!

[BBCWatcher]

Siv, that's not correct as you've wrote it. Malaysia tolerates dual citizenship among children/babies, in many cases at least. There are multiple references to that fact among Malaysian High Commissions elsewhere. It's not a general problem under current Malaysian citizenship law (which has changed very recently).

Singapore appears to be a special case. And I'm not quite sure why, actually, since I haven't yet been able to find adequate, current legal foundation for the reported practices of the Malaysian High Commission in Singapore. That doesn't mean that legal foundation doesn't exist. I just haven't found it yet.

One solution appears to be birth in Malaysia, across the causeway. (And no, don't try to cross the border while in labor. Take maternity leave, cross the border at the start of leave, then go into labor in due time.) It appears that Singapore has no problem with that (Singaporean mother, birth abroad, registration with Singapore). Malaysia is often rather fussy that the marriage must be registered with Malaysia before the birth of the child, so just make sure that's done.

[Siv]

Siv, that's not correct as you've wrote it. Malaysia tolerates dual citizenship among children/babies, in many cases at least. There are multiple references to that fact among Malaysian High Commissions elsewhere. It's not a general problem under current Malaysian citizenship law (which has changed very recently).

Singapore appears to be a special case. And I'm not quite sure why, actually, since I haven't yet been able to find adequate, current legal foundation for the reported practices of the Malaysian High Commission in Singapore. That doesn't mean that legal foundation doesn't exist. I just haven't found it yet.

One solution appears to be birth in Malaysia, across the causeway. (And no, don't try to cross the border while in labor. Take maternity leave, cross the border at the start of leave, then go into labor in due time.) It appears that Singapore has no problem with that (Singaporean mother, birth abroad, registration with Singapore). Malaysia is often rather fussy that the marriage must be registered with Malaysia before the birth of the child, so just make sure that's done.

BBCW, yes of course it tolerates....sometimes they have to For eg, my brother and his wife had a baby in Vietnam, where was on expat posting. When he came back to register my nephew, he had no issues whatsoever, of course, because he was in there for work. Cases like that, yes...tolerable.

But between Malaysia and Singapore, rest assured OP will be asked on his Malaysian details ie residence, marriage certificate etc....as I said, not impossible but it's no walk in the park or a certainty.

Thousands and thousands of Malaysians have babies born in Singapore (for various reasons), but as long as they reside in Malaysia, and can prove so, registering a child in Malaysia after deliver in SG is a cakewalk.

[calvinkwoo30001]

Thank for all the replied.
Conclusion, am i right to say that after delivery my kids then
1. Go to register as Singaporean
2. Go High COmmision Malaysia and register as Malaysian?
3. Kids can decide to be Singaporean or Malaysian when 21 year old?
am i right to say so?

[Siv]

Thank for all the replied.
Conclusion, am i right to say that after delivery my kids then
1. Go to register as Singaporean
2. Go High COmmision Malaysia and register as Malaysian?
3. Kids can decide to be Singaporean or Malaysian when 21 year old?
am i right to say so?

YES on 1.
Big question mark on 2.
No idea on 3. Could be irrelevant anyway if fail 2.

Anyway, if the purpose of you having your child keep dual citizenship is just for the 2 years of being taken care of by grandparents in Malaysia, then I would not sweat it. Surely there is a way to get around that, without having to deal with the whole citizenship matter.

Again on no 2, it's really simple. You would need to show the hospital letter, marriage certificate and your IC. That's 2 out of 3 showing SG information. I'm just assuming here. Not saying you can't, just saying you have to be prepared if it doesn't pan out for you.

If it works out for you, then great. I stand corrected and we all learn something new

Good luck man.

[calvinkwoo30001]

Thank for all the replied.
Conclusion, am i right to say that after delivery my kids then
1. Go to register as Singaporean
2. Go High COmmision Malaysia and register as Malaysian?
3. Kids can decide to be Singaporean or Malaysian when 21 year old?
am i right to say so?

YES on 1.
Big question mark on 2.
No idea on 3. Could be irrelevant anyway if fail 2.

Anyway, if the purpose of you having your child keep dual citizenship is just for the 2 years of being taken care of by grandparents in Malaysia, then I would not sweat it. Surely there is a way to get around that, without having to deal with the whole citizenship matter.

Again on no 2, it's really simple. You would need to show the hospital letter, marriage certificate and your IC. That's 2 out of 3 showing SG information. I'm just assuming here. Not saying you can't, just saying you have to be prepared if it doesn't pan out for you.

If it works out for you, then great. I stand corrected and we all learn something new

Good luck man.

Thank every one and Siv....
Try!!!

[BBCWatcher]

....Or have the baby in Malaysia. Document the baby's Malaysian citizenship during the course of birth registration there, and apply for the baby's Singaporean citizenship quickly thereafter. Don't forget marriage registration (with Malaysia) if that hasn't been done yet.

N.B. The baby must enter/exit Malaysia with his/her Malaysian passport and enter/exit Singapore with his/her Singaporean passport. Present one and only one passport at each respective government's border checkpoint: the passport issued by that government. That means a dual citizen of these two countries cannot travel between these two countries without both passports in hand.

[dynamic.dante]

Wouldn't that raise some eyebrows if e.g Singaporean passport only have Singapore stamps and not malaysia.
Unless the parent go through the Thailand route instead of Johore or KLIA


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[BBCWatcher]

Ah, the passport stamp question. Probably not. Many countries don't stamp passports any more, and many more forget to stamp particular passports. Computer database records have mostly taken over. The stamps are becoming increasingly nostalgic and useless. But yes, if you're extra cautious when traveling between your countries of citizenship you could travel via a third country (and take a trip through that third country's passport control for a stamp or two). That's an option. That's assuming at least one of your countries is hostile to your possession of multiple citizenships.

However, children can more often legally possess multiple citizenship from birth. That's the case with these two countries. Also, Singaporean citizen adults use electronic kiosks to enter/exit Singapore, and I've never seen one of those kiosks flip through passport pages looking for stamps (or missing stamps).

On the off chance somebody asks "Where's the stamp?" then a truthful answer would be "Nobody stamped my passport." Dumb (and truthful) answer, but it's a dumb question.

I'll stop there since it's a bit of a digression. I think that'll do as a quick summary.

[ecureilx]

On the off chance somebody asks "Where's the stamp?" then a truthful answer would be "Nobody stamped my passport." Dumb (and truthful) answer, but it's a dumb question.
.

In Boleh land, that kind of reply can be taken humorously or, depending on the victim - hand cuffed and thrown into jail.

I do hope you read the local news.

Ps, there are times MY immigration scans Malaysian passports without stamping and other times, they do stamp. Not sure what's their rationale.

[BBCWatcher]

Virtually anything is possible.

Ps, there are times MY immigration scans Malaysian passports without stamping and other times, they do stamp. Not sure what's their rationale.

Exactly! That's very common and getting more common. Stamps are rapidly becoming passé. So have you been (a) asked about your missing stamp by some other country, then (b) been thrown in prison in that other country for answering truthfully?

I was asked a stamp-related question once at a particular passport control. The first question was a standard "What countries have you been to within the past year?" (or similar). I answered truthfully. The officer flipped through my passport as I answered. Next question: "You didn't mention Algeria. I see you have an Algerian stamp in your passport. Would you care to explain that?" Well, that was a puzzle. It took me a couple seconds to figure that out. I replied, truthfully again, "Oh, you mean Algeciras. I probably have a stamp from Algeciras. Algeciras is a city in Spain, and I recommend visiting it." The officer grimaced, handed my passport back, and waved me on -- all without another word.

On edit: Spain doesn't routinely stamp passports any more. It's part of the 26 nation Schengen Area. There are no routine passport control checkpoints within the Schengen Area, and even when you enter/exit the Schengen Area the stamps are not always (or even often) given any more. A lot of people don't even need passports to travel internationally, regionally, in that part of the world -- national ID cards suffice -- so there isn't any passport page to stamp even if an officer wanted to. Algeciras is still a nice city to visit.