South China Sea ruling .....

[TMD]

That's easy. Across the Kra Isthmus (The Thai Canal), once it's completed.

Ah. That idea of digging across the thinnest section of Pacific Asia land mass had been around for centuries. Chanced upon several publishing dwelling on the geopolitical implication when this ever come to fruition...The general conclusion seems to be more cons than pros (surprisingly) since it will upset current dynamics of the Asian economic arrangement and strategic balance which has worked pretty well for last few decades..Plus the Chinese aren't sure of Thailand long-term stability, especially so near to Malaysia border.

In any case, going via Kra Canal doesn't mean ships can avoid the SCS route entirely.

[sundaymorningstaple]

True, but when one considers the size of the Chinese coast guard vessels they are currently building (bigger than US Destroyers!) Who's to say. They won't care about Thailand's instability, they are figuring eventually after Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam (again), Thailand, Myanmar, Malaysia will be next. The old communist domino theory that the US used for getting VN in the first place. So, instead of starting with land grabs, they are going for control of the waterways. Once they have that, short of a full fledged World War, they will be able to pick off the Asean countries in their good old time. Remember, they work slowly but insidisously.

[TMD]

True, but when one considers the size of the Chinese coast guard vessels they are currently building (bigger than US Destroyers!) Who's to say. They won't care about Thailand's instability, they are figuring eventually after Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam (again), Thailand, Myanmar, Malaysia will be next. The old communist domino theory that the US used for getting VN in the first place. So, instead of starting with land grabs, they are going for control of the waterways. Once they have that, short of a full fledged World War, they will be able to pick off the Asean countries in their good old time. Remember, they work slowly but insidisously.

If we are to apply the general strategy imperial China had often used in gaining control or influence on other states while avoiding conflicts whenever possible (minus the period when China was ruled by the Mongols) , you will understand why today's China spectrum wide approach consist of economy to global institutional changes are done in methodical and gradual manner.

Chinese thinks long term and has the patience to see through the eventual swing of the world order until the situation favors them. They aren't gonna compromise the current situation which they had benefited thus far.

If China had wanted to annex much of SEA, take full control of SCS and forced reunification with Taiwan, a nuclear capable PRC would have done that during the Cold War era allied with the then USSR, regardless of the consequence. But Beijing didn't.

Instead, we saw history-changing reforms, opening up of China, engaging the world, joining WTO and today working their way through UN systems and supporting existing international institutions. e.g. allowing their currency to be used internationally, creating new world banks and rekindling the pan-Euro-Asia physical trade routes that once made China a key player in world economy..

If China had been a little less patience and practices interventionism like the US had, she would have paid a far greater cost than the US had in Vietnam, and lately in Iraq.

The old saying from Sun Tzu still holds true today -
"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill.
To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill..”

[Strong Eagle]

Fact is, TMD, no matter which way you slice it, China refuses to play by normally accepted rules of international relations. Perhaps they are not quite as thuggish as Putin, but bribery, sabre rattling, threats, and support of tinpot dictators are all in China's bag of tricks.

[ecureilx]

Fact is, TMD, no matter which way you slice it, China refuses to play by normally accepted rules of international relations. Perhaps they are not quite as thuggish as Putin, but bribery, sabre rattling, threats, and support of tinpot dictators are all in China's bag of tricks.

And TMD insists Philippines is crazy to go the legal day.

TMD insists talks will resolve everything... yes, but he doesn't know what the resolution will be ...

[TMD]

Fact is, TMD, no matter which way you slice it, China refuses to play by normally accepted rules of international relations. Perhaps they are not quite as thuggish as Putin, but bribery, sabre rattling, threats, and support of tinpot dictators are all in China's bag of tricks.

And TMD insists Philippines is crazy to go the legal day.
TMD insists talks will resolve everything... yes, but he doesn't know what the resolution will be ...

Correction:

I didn't use the word "crazy" and nor did I "insist" anything.
What I did was to suggest 2 or 3 doable options that Manila government could have taken.

Fact is it was their last President who made that a unilateral choice which the current one clearly has a 2nd thought. So after millions of pesos paid to get PCA hearing and legal consultancy in the name of the UN law, we have a ex-President going to China over a lunch that costed nothing to the Philippines tax payers to work out an official TALK with Beijing.

Jaw jaw is better than law law - And that is hardly a crazy idea, isn't it ?

[TMD]

Fact is, TMD, no matter which way you slice it, China refuses to play by normally accepted rules of international relations.

That got me interested - Just what does "accepted rules of international relations" really means ?
Is this about a common interpretation of how a bilateral relation should be conducted or by defined by tribunal who's jurisdiction isn't mandated by the UN ?

Perhaps they are not quite as thuggish as Putin, but bribery, sabre rattling, threats, and support of tinpot dictators are all in China's bag of tricks.

I am not sure about Putin ... However I do learn that "bribery, sabre rattling, threats, and support of tinpot dictators" was and still is part and parcel of certain country's foreign policy practices.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Jaw jaw is better than law law - And that is hardly a crazy idea, isn't it ?

It's not crazy in the normal sense of the word, but in China's case it a total waste of time. All the 'peens is going to get out of all the jaw-jaw is a case of indigestion as all the talk is just hot air as China will not budge one cm from their stance regardless of what is discussed as they already know, from a thuggish standpoint that they are dealing with a lesser country that has no real choice. They also know the US will posture but that's about all, meanwhile they will continue their encroachment into all of the SCS unabated. Who's going to lift a finger to stop them? They can afford to pay for lunch if it helps them to may the 'peens stop as they cannot stop China. It's all a farce and as they hold all the cards, it's just fun and games with them.

[ecureilx]

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/57 ... guard-ship

[TMD]

Jaw jaw is better than law law - And that is hardly a crazy idea, isn't it ?

It's not crazy in the normal sense of the word, but in China's case it a total waste of time. All the 'peens is going to get out of all the jaw-jaw is a case of indigestion as all the talk is just hot air as China will not budge one cm from their stance regardless of what is discussed as they already know, from a thuggish standpoint that they are dealing with a lesser country that has no real choice. They also know the US will posture but that's about all, meanwhile they will continue their encroachment into all of the SCS unabated. Who's going to lift a finger to stop them? They can afford to pay for lunch if it helps them to may the 'peens stop as they cannot stop China. It's all a farce and as they hold all the cards, it's just fun and games with them.

You had made your position pretty clear : Talking will not improve to the situation nor relations.
So, I am going to post the same question - viewtopic.php?t=112207&start=45#p755720,

Do you have a better suggestion ?

[sundaymorningstaple]

Yeah, but to a Sinophile you might not like it too much.

[TMD]

Yeah, but to a Sinophile you might not like it too much.

Is such remark necessary ?

And why being evasive to a simple question ? Fear of being politically incorrect ?

[ecureilx]

Yeah, but to a Sinophile you might not like it too much.

Is such remark necessary ?

And why being evasive to a simple question ? Fear of being politically incorrect ?

Because you are stubborn as .. China insisting it's doing nothing wrong, while building massive artificial islands??? And claiming to protect marine resources while destroying invaluable Coral reefs, and letting their proxy navy fleet kill thousands of sea turtles and what not.

Oh, forgot if you answered this. Is SCS property of China ? In your eyes. ....

[sundaymorningstaple]

I'm replying just like China does. With implied force. I'm letting you know what you appear to be and what I could possibly do if I had my way.

Oh, I would definitely be Politically Incorrect. No ducking fout about it.

[TMD]

Yeah, but to a Sinophile you might not like it too much.

Is such remark necessary ?
And why being evasive to a simple question ? Fear of being politically incorrect ?

Because you are stubborn as .. China insisting it's doing nothing wrong, while building massive artificial islands??? And claiming to protect marine resources while destroying invaluable Coral reefs, and letting their proxy navy fleet kill thousands of sea turtles and what not.
Oh, forgot if you answered this. Is SCS property of China ? In your eyes. ....

I didn't "insist" that I was right nor had I demand folks here to agree with me.
In fact, on the contrary to your accusation, I agree with some of your points and even follow up with your advise about reading up stuff. So how is that in any way be seen as being "stubborn" like China?

Speaking of stubbornness, I am glad to see emotions remains subdue after the PCA ruling. Instead of hardening their positions and prediction of dooms and gloom, China and the Philippines seems to be heading in the direction which Beijing had long requested Manila to do - TALK !