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South China Sea ruling .....

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Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby TMD » Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:30 pm

ecureilx wrote:I have no idea how you miss the news articles about China having pushed out other exploration plans by directly and indirectly warning off the interested JV partners ...


I am not very well read. Can you share the report on this matter ?

ecureilx wrote:Have you thought of telling the Filipinos they are crazy to not jaw jaw (????) where they will end up losing ? What jaw jaw ? Where the big guy says the small guy is a bully and hence, everything must go to the big guy and since the small guy is a bully, but I am not a bully, here, let me build you a train line in Luzon or rehabilitate an airport or build a new sea port somewhere .. forget about asking anything else. Deal ?


That doesn't sound right - why would one assume that a talk can be a one-sided event without even giving a go ? Are you suggesting that the Pinoys, after having shown guts to go to court against China, now dare not even meet them on 1-to-1 talk ?


ecureilx wrote:The sources mentioned in your news article are primarily private businessmen who only see $$ . Enough said there.


$ is what the Philippines is lacking of. Perhaps business dealing and businessmen are the best candidate to work with Chinese. I think it is time they put politics aside and allow the enterprises and entrepreneurs to begin some REAL productive work.

After all, I also learn that much of the Philippines enterprises and economy are in the hands of local ethnic Chinese. So I guess there are more than a few common grounds for both sides to work towards rather allowing differences to be magnified by those elite ruling class in Manila.

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Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:58 am

TMD wrote:
Barnsley wrote:
TMD wrote:
"Bilateral agreements" is the lowest hanging fruit in a situation involving multi-parties dispute. What else do you expect those claimants do ? Sue one another ?

I still find jaw-jaw more realistic than going through law-law which has shown to be useless when territorial sovereignty is involved.
I guess Ramos visting China in this post-PCA ruling shows proof the point.

SCS dispute isn't a recent problem. This has been going on since the 1970s and all parties, to their credit, had managed the situation pretty well. But I cannot understand why the flare up within the last few years.

Can someone explain to me ?


The failing internally of China , Govt whipping up some nationalism to keep the masses from noticing that layoffs are coming thick and fast and that the Govt cant afford to keep subsidising massive over capacity in its heavy industries.
Divide and rule is the Chinese method when it comes to ASEAN.
Their worst nightmare is a united front!!


If China is failing internally, we should be seeing more Chinese refugees flooding rest of Asia, like what the EU had been getting from the Africa and ME.

instead I keep hearing news about Chinese tourists being targeted by thieves in Paris or one of them involuntarily turn into a "refugee" after he lost his wallet while traveling across Germany.. :mrgreen:

Are these for real or just another well-executed media propaganda from Beijing ? 8-[


Are you one of the 50c brigade?

Are you related to BBCwatcher?

Have you seen how many Chinese Students are in the US and UK?

The mass exodus is being done via education.

You do know how many China Chinese now live here right compared to population size as a whole?
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:11 pm

TMD wrote:$ is what the Philippines is lacking of. Perhaps business dealing and businessmen are the best candidate to work with Chinese. I think it is time they put politics aside and allow the enterprises and entrepreneurs to begin some REAL productive work.

After all, I also learn that much of the Philippines enterprises and economy are in the hands of local ethnic Chinese. So I guess there are more than a few common grounds for both sides to work towards rather allowing differences to be magnified by those elite ruling class in Manila.


What I know about few of the powerful "businessmen" there isn't so awe inspiring - they live in a different world, very different world, and its not much in their interest to work for their country. If it was so, why would a country so rich in minerals and all be getting poorer and poorer ? (Excluding the 3,000 tonne Gold of Marcos ... ;) )

Other than they are generous in their donations to church and universities, what do you know about the Chinoy oligarchs in Philippines?

PS, local ethnic Chinese ? Most of Who openly ship majority of their profits to investments in China and elsewhere, vs Filipino or Spanish descent oligarchs who reinvest most of their profits locally. It's a different topic anyway. And the Chinese you mentioned are those who control the ruling class, right up to ensuring those laws that allow discriminatory hiring practices stay firmly put ...

Do continue your research. You may find some things I don't know.

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:59 pm

Image

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Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby TMD » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 1:28 pm

Barnsley wrote:Are you one of the 50c brigade?
Are you related to BBCwatcher?

I do listen to BBC World, but "50c brigade" ?? :o
On which FM station is this on ?

Have you seen how many Chinese Students are in the US and UK?
The mass exodus is being done via education.

I am aware of that. However, are they on student pass or asylum seekers ?
According to Google statistics, there are over 270k in US alone.
International Students in the United States
Rank Place of Origin Number of Students
1 China 274,439
2 India 102,673
3 South Korea 68,047


You do know how many China Chinese now live here right compared to population size as a whole?

No idea. Do you have the estimated figure ?
Anyway, what has this got to do with SCS dispute ?

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby TMD » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 1:39 pm

ecureilx wrote:What I know about few of the powerful "businessmen" there isn't so awe inspiring - they live in a different world, very different world, and its not much in their interest to work for their country. If it was so, why would a country so rich in minerals and all be getting poorer and poorer ? (Excluding the 3,000 tonne Gold of Marcos ... ;) )


LOL!

All riches alike in other countries. Not just in the Philippines.
Reality is cruel. So let's not make life any worst by rejecting a chance for continued peace in Asia and forgetting that natural resources are there to be shared.

When I read about China's approach vs Philippines refucing direct talks before going to the Hague, I am forced to conclude that the later has no interest in sharing a resource which they are so dependent on.
So was the million $ spent at the PCA Tribunal worth every $ and sense ?
Reality is cruel. So let's start talking and get rid of lawyers. :wink:

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby TMD » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 1:57 pm

ecureilx wrote:Other than they are generous in their donations to church and universities, what do you know about the Chinoy oligarchs in Philippines?

PS, local ethnic Chinese ? Most of Who openly ship majority of their profits to investments in China and elsewhere, vs Filipino or Spanish descent oligarchs who reinvest most of their profits locally. It's a different topic anyway. And the Chinese you mentioned are those who control the ruling class, right up to ensuring those laws that allow discriminatory hiring practices stay firmly put ...
Do continue your research. You may find some things I don't know.


Thanks again for sharing. I learn another new term today - Chinoy.
This is like the Philippine version of Peranakan and here is what I found:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_F ... ry-1898.29

The text indicate the Chinese had been around in the Philippines long before the Spanish arrival. (even at one point 10/1 pop with Chinese as majority)
Chinoy's history and experience, is not unlike most of the South East Asian ethnic Chinese in much of 20th century- a sad mix of jealousy and hostility.

I can see why you mentioned Chinoy "oligarchs", not unlike a popular perception that ethic SEA-ian Chinese are wealthy lot....

Taking your advise, I found even more interesting view about Chinoy and Pinoy factors -
Assuming you have vested interest in the Philippines (private or otherwise), what is your view regarding below comment ?

http://www.getrealphilippines.com/blog/ ... nes-great/
The Philippines is bound to become the next Singapore success story of Asia, but it will likely be Chinoys who will be credited for such a feat. Native Pinoys better shed off their dysfunctional Pinoy mentality fast if they want to stay in the game, unless of course they are simply content on bowing low polishing the shiny black shoes of Henry Sy.

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 2:14 pm

TMD wrote:I can see why you mentioned Chinoy "oligarchs", not unlike a popular perception that ethic SEA-ian Chinese are wealthy lot....

Taking your advise, I found even more interesting view about Chinoy and Pinoy factors -
Assuming you have vested interest in the Philippines (private or otherwise), what is your view regarding below comment ?

http://www.getrealphilippines.com/blog/ ... nes-great/
The Philippines is bound to become the next Singapore success story of Asia, but it will likely be Chinoys who will be credited for such a feat. Native Pinoys better shed off their dysfunctional Pinoy mentality fast if they want to stay in the game, unless of course they are simply content on bowing low polishing the shiny black shoes of Henry Sy.


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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby TMD » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 2:20 pm

I guess you got this from a 15 July Bloomberg report on the PCA ruling ?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -china-sea

ecureilx wrote:Image

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 2:21 pm

TMD wrote:
LOL!

All riches alike in other countries. Not just in the Philippines.
Reality is cruel. So let's not make life any worst by rejecting a chance for continued peace in Asia and forgetting that natural resources are there to be shared.

When I read about China's approach vs Philippines refucing direct talks before going to the Hague, I am forced to conclude that the later has no interest in sharing a resource which they are so dependent on.
So was the million $ spent at the PCA Tribunal worth every $ and sense ?
Reality is cruel. So let's start talking and get rid of lawyers. :wink:


Ok, if a guy says everything belongs to me, agree to it first, sign on the dotted line, then let's talk. That's China.

So don't know why you are making China victim here, when they have bluntly said repeatedly that all of SCS belongs to China. So what would you want to talk about ? Talk about a 99.9 % / .1% return on investment, 99.9% to China vs maybe .1% to Philippines. Including the fish ..

Where exactly are you going with your talk talk story ?

Ps, China wants everything almost until nearly 50 kilometer from Philippine shores including the fish and everything. Explain that again ?

I told you before. You need to tell the Filipinos they are mad to have spent for the tribunal. Than asking me ...

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 2:26 pm

TMD wrote:I guess you got this from a 15 July Bloomberg report on the PCA ruling ?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -china-sea

ecureilx wrote:Image

No

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby TMD » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 4:23 pm

ecureilx wrote:Ok, if a guy says everything belongs to me, agree to it first, sign on the dotted line, then let's talk. That's China.

So don't know why you are making China victim here, when they have bluntly said repeatedly that all of SCS belongs to China. So what would you want to talk about ? Talk about a 99.9 % / .1% return on investment, 99.9% to China vs maybe .1% to Philippines. Including the fish ..
Where exactly are you going with your talk talk story ?


If a guy insist in doing that, I have a few choices, which can include:
A) walk away from the deal and ignore the fellow.
B) counter offer with position that protect MY interest.
C) Get a lawyer and hope for the best.

Problem is this guy , who had been around my neighborhood long before I was born and free from my slave drivers, approached me, demanding that I "discuss" with him 1-to-1 over a dispute in which he ridiculously claims ownership of 100% of a deal which rightfully belongs to me.

I am pissed, I am angry, I can't do anything, I paid my lawyers and yet situation doesn't improve.

A, B or C ? Or do you have a better suggestion ?

Ps, China wants everything almost until nearly 50 kilometer from Philippine shores including the fish and everything. Explain that again ? I told you before. You need to tell the Filipinos they are mad to have spent for the tribunal. Than asking me ...

PS: http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/ ... ea-dispute

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby TMD » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 4:36 pm

ecureilx wrote:
TMD wrote:I guess you got this from a 15 July Bloomberg report on the PCA ruling ?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -china-sea

ecureilx wrote:Image

No


No ? Strange. :-k
My search keep giving me the Bloomberg hit as the primary source which I had shared.
Anyway, using one of the layers from that flipping GIF, it claims 40% of China's oil imports goes through SCS. :o

This lead me to ask the obvious question -
How on earth will Chinese interest be served by having SCS route interrupted or molested when conflict breaks out in that particular region ?

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 16 Aug 2016 5:16 pm

That's easy. Across the Kra Isthmus (The Thai Canal), once it's completed.

MOC between China and Thailand for the construction of Kra Canal signed

Hong Kong news outlet Wen Wei Po reported on 17 May that China and Thailand have signed a Memorandum of Cooperation on the development of the Kra Canal.

If nothing falls through, Kra Canal could be a reality in 10 years at the cost of US$21 billion. If nuclear and other technologies are used in the construction, the timeline could be shortened to 7 years but at a cost of US$36 billion.

*Editor’s note: The correct figures are US$21 billion and US$36 billion, it was wrongly stated as US$210 billion and US$360 billion.*

According to the report, the Kra Canal would be 102 km long, 400 m wide and 20 m deep. It would shorten the journey between the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean by 1,200 km. Moving 100,000 tonnes worth of cargo through the canal will shorten the journey two to five days and save approximately US$350,000 in fuel cost.

*Editor’s note as at 19 May 3.10pm: Officials from Thailand and China have denied media reports about the Kra Canal. Mothership.sg provides more details here.*

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby TMD » Wed, 17 Aug 2016 5:34 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:That's easy. Across the Kra Isthmus (The Thai Canal), once it's completed.


Ah. That idea of digging across the thinnest section of Pacific Asia land mass had been around for centuries. Chanced upon several publishing dwelling on the geopolitical implication when this ever come to fruition...The general conclusion seems to be more cons than pros (surprisingly) since it will upset current dynamics of the Asian economic arrangement and strategic balance which has worked pretty well for last few decades..Plus the Chinese aren't sure of Thailand long-term stability, especially so near to Malaysia border.

In any case, the Kra Canal doesn't ships can avoid the SCS route entirely.


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