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South China Sea ruling .....

Postby Barnsley » Wed, 13 Jul 2016 12:56 pm

Keeps the Chinese Govt press folk in a job if nothing else =D> =D>
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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 13 Jul 2016 8:47 pm

After China gets through with its sabre rattling, it will be an opportunity for them to demonstrate whether they abide by the rules of international law or will continue to behave as a rogue nation.

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby PNGMK » Wed, 13 Jul 2016 9:42 pm

They'll go rogue.
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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 14 Jul 2016 3:55 am

The ruling is correct. Due to the rise of a small class of mega-wealth in China, there is rising discontent among those who are still stuck in poverty. The latter is bigger and larger in number and in force. It is destabilizing. CCP will do whatever it can to clamp down on any signs, with their hardline policies. They are getting worse by the day. Not sure what they will resort to. Out of desperation. Look at what they have done to Hong Kong.

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby Barnsley » Thu, 14 Jul 2016 10:22 am

Could lead to some tensions in Singapore between our resident Filipino n China Chinese friends.

I haven't read the whole ruling , but haven't they just ruled that there aren't any islands there, not who owns what , just rocks , hence they do not count as having any economic zone or whatever its called.
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Re: RE: Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 14 Jul 2016 10:31 am

Strong Eagle wrote:After China gets through with its sabre rattling, it will be an opportunity for them to demonstrate whether they abide by the rules of international law or will continue to behave as a rogue nation.

China will show the middle finger to the courts.

Oh, they did it, by not attending the hearings and building a massive artificial island complete full length runway long enough for a A320 to land.. and did land two civilian test flights !

They won't budge from their claims, lest they lose face.

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 14 Jul 2016 1:06 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36784343

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... l#comments

Because of these events I do not see HOW COMMUNIST CHINA has any claim to the South China Sea that Ancient China ruled over???
There are many Chinese who have not seen China since 1644 AD! My family moved to the USA in 1872? Furthermore, many Chinese in the USA are intermarried with other Asian/South East Asians.

I am both Japanese/日本人:にほんじん:Nihon Jin and Chinese/Chugoku Jin , 中国人 .



I second the above comment. However, for a Chinese who has lived his entire life in China, just like the generations before him, they are exposed to a different experience. Here's what I can think of.

-A century of close door policy. Isolating them from the rest of the world and the ideas and technology that were developing all this time. It is a process. Does not happen overnight

-Toxic Chinese govt progaganda. One way around it is to expose them to the outside world. Many mainland Chinese who have studied and experience the American governace and able to introspect will eventually see their govt for what they are

-Cultural and historical baggage
Chinese revel in their long and rich culture. They savor their ties to their past e.g. ancestor worship (tribute / respect may be more apt than the term "worship"). A 9 dash line on an ancient map is very meaningful to them. Altho it may seem to have little relevance in present day for you and me. In fact, many mainland Chinese see themselves being bullied by the outside world for robbing them of their historical legitimacy. And scratching their heads, why don't these foreigners recognize our historical map? What is wrong with them? Why are they so mean to us :???: :mrgreen: . This is our identity. Made worse by govt propaganda who use it as a uniting force to distract.



China, being the new kid on the blog is a bit pariah in her ways. And unfortunately for the more worldly you and me, we just got to try to engage them. The onus is on us as we are the more "experience" one. We don't want them to act rashly, out of desperation. North Korea comes to mind. History does repeat itself. Another world war is not all that outlandish. When a person / group feels cornered.

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby ecureilx » Thu, 14 Jul 2016 2:53 pm

earthfriendly wrote:-Cultural and historical baggage
Chinese revel in their long and rich culture. They savor their ties to their past e.g. ancestor worship (tribute / respect may be more apt than the term "worship"). A 9 dash line on an ancient map is very meaningful to them. Altho it may seem to have little relevance in present day for you and me. In fact, many mainland Chinese see themselves being bullied by the outside world for robbing them of their historical legitimacy. And scratching their heads, why don't these foreigners recognize our historical map? What is wrong with them? Why are they so mean to us :???: :mrgreen: . This is our identity. Made worse by govt propaganda who use it as a uniting force to distract.


in South China Sea, it is worse, being whipped by a small time puppy - Philippines. For Chinese Party media, Philippines is the bully. And it's about time to teach the puppy to behave.

PS, about India, in 1890 or thereabouts, A part of Kashmir had been documented as part of the Aksai Chin being part of China, possibly due to a mapping error.

The subsequent Maps rectified the error, and placed Aksai Chin in India, as it always was.

Come a few decades - the PRC rulers found the old map which placed Aksai Chin in China, and now the place being in India - effectively means India Stole it, and it's time to get it back. And to teach India a lesson - that is, not to bully China.

Hence, China went to war 1962, and lost a 1000 or so soldiers, and likewise, India too lost a 1000 or so soldiers, and China took more than Aksai Chin, and when stalemate was reached, China 'graciously' gave back to India parts China didn't need, but kept the Aksai Chin area. Which sort of lopped off the top right side of India, the side that has been always been part of India, is now part of China.

So, what stops China from repeating 1962 ?

Oh, well, didn't they go to war with Vietnam as well, and lost a few thousand soldiers, just to prove a point ?

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby Barnsley » Thu, 14 Jul 2016 4:27 pm

ecureilx wrote:
earthfriendly wrote:-Cultural and historical baggage
Chinese revel in their long and rich culture. They savor their ties to their past e.g. ancestor worship (tribute / respect may be more apt than the term "worship"). A 9 dash line on an ancient map is very meaningful to them. Altho it may seem to have little relevance in present day for you and me. In fact, many mainland Chinese see themselves being bullied by the outside world for robbing them of their historical legitimacy. And scratching their heads, why don't these foreigners recognize our historical map? What is wrong with them? Why are they so mean to us :???: :mrgreen: . This is our identity. Made worse by govt propaganda who use it as a uniting force to distract.


in South China Sea, it is worse, being whipped by a small time puppy - Philippines. For Chinese Party media, Philippines is the bully. And it's about time to teach the puppy to behave.

PS, about India, in 1890 or thereabouts, A part of Kashmir had been documented as part of the Aksai Chin being part of China, possibly due to a mapping error.

The subsequent Maps rectified the error, and placed Aksai Chin in India, as it always was.

Come a few decades - the PRC rulers found the old map which placed Aksai Chin in China, and now the place being in India - effectively means India Stole it, and it's time to get it back. And to teach India a lesson - that is, not to bully China.

Hence, China went to war 1962, and lost a 1000 or so soldiers, and likewise, India too lost a 1000 or so soldiers, and China took more than Aksai Chin, and when stalemate was reached, China 'graciously' gave back to India parts China didn't need, but kept the Aksai Chin area. Which sort of lopped off the top right side of India, the side that has been always been part of India, is now part of China.

So, what stops China from repeating 1962 ?

Oh, well, didn't they go to war with Vietnam as well, and lost a few thousand soldiers, just to prove a point ?


They have plenty of cannon fodder .....

Good for the soul they say , sacrificing a few bottom feeders to make the elite feel strong ](*,)
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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 7:54 am

"He was a five-footer, but a giant among men" ~ LKY on Deng Xiaoping. What about the current leadership, Xi Jinping? According to the Economist, " Xi Who Must Be Obeyed"

“If one day China should change her color and turn into a superpower, if she too should play the tyrant in the world, and everywhere subject others to her bullying, aggression and exploitation, the people of the world should identify her as social-imperialism, expose it, oppose it and work together with the Chinese people to overthrow it.” ~ Deng Xiaoping speech at the United Nations, April 10, 1974



http://opinion.inquirer.net/73236/china ... ng-warning

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 8:01 am

It is deeply Confucianistic concept. To overthrow tyrant leaders. When they become corrupted.

https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-Euro ... -of-Heaven

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby ecureilx » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 1:50 pm

And then Russia has said they will stand by Philippines, in the South China Sea Row. Maybe they are hoping to become good guys, like how they did in Syria :)

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 2:25 pm

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/f ... its-future


History cannot explain all, and China may be entering uncharted territory. The country’s evolving policy will require a different approach from that of the United States.

In the meantime, a sensible approach, attentive of China’s rich history and aspirations, that doesn’t forget but also doesn’t exaggerate China’s regional actions, will help guide the U.S.-China relationship to unparalleled heights.


Yeah, to deal with present day China, you gonna have to deal with their historic past (baggage) too. It is a package deal :P .

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 3:03 pm

And from the comment.

China has learned to distrust foreigners, especially after the Opium War, Opium War II, 8 Nation Alliance, etc. etc. etc. Guess who were being belligerent on China in those wars?


The Chinese have a thing for history and historical events, both the good and sad ones. Although I am now sure how steep it is with the younger generation. But many of the Politburo are of that era that are well-exposed to this narrative.

And from a progandistic piece of writing but some historical facts are still useful to know. Constant bombardment by wars can make one feel vulnerable in this world.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/f ... its-future

In modern times the Western powers, including Japan, plunged feudal China into the abyss and the Chinese nation faced a severe test of life and death. China went through nearly 100 years of wars, from the Opium War of 1840 all the way to the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression (1931-1945) during which Japan occupied a large part of the Chinese territory for 14 years.

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Re: South China Sea ruling .....

Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 3:06 pm

ecureilx wrote:And then Russia has said they will stand by Philippines, in the South China Sea Row. Maybe they are hoping to become good guys, like how they did in Syria :)


Not aware of this. But quite a sweet gesture from Russia :lol: . Every cloud has a silver lining.


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