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REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

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edwardkk
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REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby edwardkk » Sun, 10 Jul 2016 2:46 pm

Hi guys,

I am close to 55 now. I left my last job more than a year ago and don't think I can find one before REP expiry.

I got my PR some 30 years ago via PTS. My dependents are my non-working wife and 3 children (age 24, 22 & 20). I need your advice for the following:

1. Do I still need to be gainfully employed like my all previous REP renewal applications? I am almost 55.

2. Can my 2 older children be 'splitted' from me and renew REP on their own? One of them is working while the other one a tertiary student.

Thanks.
Ed.

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby PNGMK » Sun, 10 Jul 2016 3:45 pm

Oh I don't know about 1. Please let us know the outcome :(

For 2 the children need to be able to obtain PR on their own merits. The student can get a student pass while the working child needs to obtain on his own and would as an adult anyways (I assume he/she < 21).
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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 10 Jul 2016 4:23 pm

edwardkk wrote:Hi guys,

I am close to 55 now. I left my last job more than a year ago and don't think I can find one before REP expiry.

This is somewhat of a grey area as we know that PR obtained under the Family Ties scheme do not need to have a job after the age of 55. This I found out at the age of 57 when out of work for 14 months and having to renew my REP during that time. I actually waited until I found another job (went a total of 15 months without a reentry permit) but at the time of renewal I was told that those on Family Ties were not PR tied to employment. Sadly, I didn't think fast enough to ask about PTS Scheme PRs. I somehow don't think you can if you are on the PTS scheme. My best mate (a Kiwi) had PR here and owns a condo and car (which I've been using for the last 3 years - but scrapping in 3 more weeks) He is a project Scheduling Engineer who works project all over the region. He was on a three year contract in Indonesia and his REP expired during that time so he lost his PR. However, as he was out of the country, it may have not been renewed for that reason as opposed to being age related. So we just aren't sure on the 55 thing in relation to the PTS PR.

I got my PR some 30 years ago via PTS. My dependents are my non-working wife and 3 children (age 24, 22 & 20). I need your advice for the following:

I'm assuming that your children are all female? If not did the boys do their NS? If all are girls they can remain PR's under your sponsorship as long as they are still single and living at home and not working. Any of them are boys over the age of 21, they will not have their PR renewed and will have to earn PR on their own merits. They might get lucky and be put on LTVPs but I think it would only be for a limited amount of time (maybe 6 month, non-extendable).

1. Do I still need to be gainfully employed like my all previous REP renewal applications? I am almost 55.

See my comments above.

2. Can my 2 older children be 'splitted' from me and renew REP on their own? One of them is working while the other one a tertiary student.

Again, see my comments above.

Thanks.
Ed.

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 10 Jul 2016 4:32 pm

https://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=152&secid=150

Overview

A valid Re-Entry Permit (REP) is necessary whenever a Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR) wishes to travel out of Singapore. It will enable the Permanent Resident to retain his/her SPR status while away from Singapore.

An SPR who remains outside Singapore without a valid REP will lose his/her SPR status.

Eligibility

An SPR holding a valid travel document may apply for a Re-Entry Permit.

Application for Re-Entry Permit (REP)



IMPORTANT NOTICE

Applications for REP and/or transfer of REP are no longer accepted over the counters of Permanent Resident Services Centre (PRSC), ICA Building. If your REP is still valid, you are required to submit your application online via the Electronic REP System (e-REP) at http://erep.ica.gov.sg. You will need a SingPass account to access e-REP.

If your REP has expired, you will need to make an appointment via http://eappointment.ica.gov.sg and submit your application in person.

Please note that submission in person is strictly by appointment only.


(a) You are required to submit an application via the Electronic Re-Entry Permit System (e-REP) three (3) months before the expiry date of your current REP.

You will need a SingPass account to access to e-REP. To apply for a SingPass, you may wish to access http://www.singpass.gov.sg. By using e-REP, it will save you a trip to ICA Building. You do not need to submit any documents unless requested to do so.

Note:
After you have submitted your application, please check your application outcome in e-REP within five (5) working days. You will be notified by email of the outcome if you have provided your email address during the application process. If your application has been approved, please make payment within fourteen (14) days of approval. Otherwise, the application will be withdrawn.

(b) If your REP has expired, you will need to make an appointment via http://eappointment.ica.gov.sg and submit your application in person.

Please note that submission in person is strictly by appointment only.

Documents to be completed before appointment

Please download the REP application form (Form 6) and the accompany notes (Notes - REP) and complete the application form before proceeding to PRSC. You will require Adobe Acrobat Reader to read and print the form.

Please bring along the following documents when you proceed to PRSC on your appointment date and time:

1) Singapore Blue Identity Card
2) National Service Personnel Identity Card (For PR serving National Service)
2) Valid travel document
3) Latest REP, if any

If you are:

(i) An employee

You are required to furnish any of the following documents:

A letter (issued not more than one month ago) from the employer addressed to the Controller of Immigration, stating the date of employment, position held and monthly salary; or
Statement from the CPF Board showing the CPF Contribution History for the last 12 months; or
Income Tax Notice of Assessment for the last one year.
(ii) Self-employed (e.g. company director, sole proprietor, business partner)

You are required to furnish any of the following documents:

Income Tax Notice of Assessment for the last one (1) year; or
Business Registration Certificate (showing the names of all the Directors and partners) from the Instant Information Service, Accounting & Corporate Regulatory Authority (ACRA).
(iii) Spouse of a Singapore Citizen/SPR

You are required to furnish the following document:

Singapore Identity Card of Spouse
(iv) Dependant SPR below 21 Years of Age

You are required to furnish the following documents:

Travel document
Parents' identity cards
*When the applicant reaches 21 years old, he/she needs to produce the highest qualification certificate and proof of employment in Singapore, if any.

Note: Additional documents and information may be required to support the application if necessary.



(c) If you are overseas and do not have a SingPass account, you may submit your application through the nearest Singapore Overseas Mission.

Note:
An overseas application should be submitted at least 2 months before the expiry of the current REP. This is to allow sufficient time for processing. An overseas applicant whose spouse is an SC or SPR should furnish his/her spouse's Singapore identity card number and a copy of their marriage certificate to expedite processing.

There may be instances where an SPR is required to return to Singapore to complete the formalities for REP at PRSC. In such cases, you may be granted a short-term REP to facilitate your return to Singapore. Please note that completion of REP formalities is strictly by appointment only. Appointments can be made via http://eappointment.ica.gov.sg.

Fees

S$10 for every year of the validity period of the REP, or part thereof.

A separate fee is chargeable for each REP issued.

For e-REP renewal, payment have to be made using either VISA Card or MasterCard Credit/Debit Card. For REP renewal made in person, payment will be made via NETS or Cashcard.

Processing Time

Most applications can be processed within one (1) working day. For SPRs who are currently not in Singapore, the outcome of the applications will be made known to the applicants within five (5) working days.

Additional Information

All REPs now come in the form of print-outs. We have ceased issuing REP endorsements in passports.

If you have any further enquiries, please email us at ICA_REP@ica.gov.sg.

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby edwardkk » Mon, 11 Jul 2016 7:00 pm

...sounds like it is time to dispose everything, pack and go since I am no longer contributing (a liability to the nation). This is the unique thing about sg PR as compared to PR of the rest of the world.

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 11 Jul 2016 10:59 pm

edwardkk,

It's been on my mind a lot in the past 5 years or so as well. I've been here 34 years but PR only 25 of them, but I'm rapidly closing in on 69 and while I am still gainfully employed and should remain so for another 6/7 years according to my boss. I wonder after that time, and they can change anything and everything as and when they damn well feel like it. They suck out all your juices and then just toss you aside.

One of my offspring is now married and has made me a grandfather, but the other is still living at home, has done his NS and is part owner of a themed Barber Shop but shows no inclination to leave home or get married as of yet. He's the youngest and will be 27 next month. As noted, in theory, anyway, I should be okay as the flat is paid for and I'm a Family Ties PR. But one cannot help but have the niggling feeling in the back of our mind as we know the government here cannot be fully trusted as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 11 Jul 2016 11:43 pm

I offer one other story. I have a friend, into his 70's that has been retired for many years. He was the MD of a very well know MNC in Singapore, and has beaucoup dollars. He has not worked in many years, nor is involved in one of the investment programs that gahmen has. He is quite involved in many volunteer activities.

I judge that the gahmen concludes that he has enough independent wealth such that he will never be a drag on the Singapore economy... indeed... the opposite is true... the ability to live in expensive digs, drive expensive cars, hire maids and gardeners, and make generous contributions to charities near and dear to the gahmen's heart.

Point is: If you have sufficient demonstrable wealth to live without working, then I'd go that route. True, as SMS says, they can pull the rug out from you at anytime but it seems to be a chance worth taking.

One final point. As a PR, you can form a company, a consulting company, if you wish. A SP makes you self employed, a Pte Ltd makes you an employee, even as MD.

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 12 Jul 2016 8:08 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I wonder after that time, and they can change anything and everything as and when they damn well feel like it.

If you're concerned that the government will suddenly change a policy that hasn't changed in the country's entire history as a country, there is a straightforward solution: apply for citizenship.

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 12 Jul 2016 9:13 am

BBCW - the problem is the policy is not at all clear in this grey area before 55... it is quite clear after 55. There has even been a minister speaking about how PR will not be forced out post retirement. I need to hang onto my job until 55 as well (52 this year I should make it although my REP runs until I am 54 and 3 months old - damn).
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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 12 Jul 2016 9:54 am

FWIW, I renewed my REP in 2012, age 62, still working for my own Pte Ltd, and with a dearth of business.

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 12 Jul 2016 10:49 am

PNGMK wrote:BBCW - the problem is the policy is not at all clear in this grey area before 55... it is quite clear after 55. There has even been a minister speaking about how PR will not be forced out post retirement. I need to hang onto my job until 55 as well (52 this year I should make it although my REP runs until I am 54 and 3 months old - damn).

There is no obligation to renew a REP. If you remain in Singapore, you don't need one. SMS previously posted that he lived in Singapore as a PR for a considerable period of time between REPs. No problem.

If you want to apply to renew your REP on your 55th birthday, 9 months after your previous one expired, you can do that. You just have to remain in Singapore for those 9+ months in order to preserve your PR status.

Although the government has not changed its core policy about allowing PRs to stay (and to renew their REPs) in their retirement(*) ever since PR status was invented, and although that government minister provides reassurance, technically the government is free to change its policy in the future. If that slight risk is a concern, then applying for citizenship is an option.

(*) Assuming a PR does not become destitute and a burden on the state, or a criminal. I don't think non-citizen destitution or criminality has ever been tolerated. (In practice, with modern CPF, destitution is not common.) At that point the government can and has deported PRs, I assume. PRs are (or at least were, upon acquiring PR status) required to have/had travel documents, a critical prerequisite for deportation.
Last edited by BBCWatcher on Tue, 12 Jul 2016 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 12 Jul 2016 10:55 am

Good points BBCW
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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 12 Jul 2016 2:39 pm

BBCW, Yes, but as was also careful to point out that my PR is based on Family Ties and not the PTS scheme. The Family Ties PR is not required to have a job post 55 (although at the time I wasn't aware of it - I found out the day I got the re-entry permit (at ICA - the officer informed me after I told her that I'd not worked in 14 months and was waiting on finding a job before apply for the REP). I could have fallen off my chair. The stress I'd been under for over a year without an REP (I could see one of my parents passing away or some other state-side emergency where I would have to leave without an REP). Family Ties is straightforward (until they wake up one morning and change it) but the PTS has nothing but grey fog around it. I'm assuming their verbal attitude as reiterated by the minister will hold, but it's not written anywhere. [-o<

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 12 Jul 2016 3:47 pm

OK, but there's no difference between PTS and FT PRs in terms of when you need/don't need a Re-Entry Permit. Yes, it is awkward for PRs of both types not to have a REP if urgent travel outside Singapore is a possibility.

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Re: REP expiring in 2 months time...advice needed

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 12 Jul 2016 4:44 pm

For all those whining about PR in Singapore (not me) I had a look at one of the neighbours requirements for PR and then retirement;

PR in Thailand .... This is an opportunity that the Thai government offers to only 100 people of each nationality every year. The applications usually take place in December. The committee initially evaluates applications for about 5 months, and then calls successful applicants for interview. Generally, the whole process can take up to a year.


Retirement in Thailand....

Applicant must be 50 years of age or over.
Must not have any criminal history and can travel to Thailand.
Must meet the financial requirement:
Security deposit of THB 800,000 in a Thai bank account for 2 months prior to the visa application; or
Monthly income or pension of at least THB 65,000 (about $2,500 per month). An affidavit from the foreigner embassy or consulate has to be obtained as proof of the income; or
Combination of the Thai bank account and yearly income - with the total of 800,000 THB.
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