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MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

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rajagainstthemachine
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MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Tue, 05 Jul 2016 8:45 pm

so apparently 26/35 of the SMRT trains were found to be defective and some were shipped back..

http://bfy.tw/6b3G

as usual comments on social media were hilarious

Claim to be of First World standard but buy Cheapskate trains with third world standard.....so malu.

Good luck to all those electronics parts even if they repaired it. Do you think the parts are genuine or Great Wall or Flying Eagle brand?

Shame on our government, alway look for bargain. Worldwide know , Ah Tiong machinery is one of the worst in Safety Standard yet they choose to buy from them.

lucky got warranty??? Lucky your dick head lah....

more break down expected, to cover that more fare hikes coming
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

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Re: MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:00 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:so apparently 26/35 of the SMRT trains were found to be defective and some were shipped back..

http://bfy.tw/6b3G

as usual comments on social media were hilarious

Claim to be of First World standard but buy Cheapskate trains with third world standard.....so malu.

Good luck to all those electronics parts even if they repaired it. Do you think the parts are genuine or Great Wall or Flying Eagle brand?

Shame on our government, alway look for bargain. Worldwide know , Ah Tiong machinery is one of the worst in Safety Standard yet they choose to buy from them.

lucky got warranty??? Lucky your dick head lah....

more break down expected, to cover that more fare hikes coming


PS, they were Kawasaki design, outsourced to China.

PS, where does iPhones come from ?

Coat, Hat, Umbrella ....

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Re: MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:28 pm

the irony is that the HK media picked up the news before the SG media outlets, locals are furious
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Re: MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:31 pm

Sia la... you would faulty goods return it immediately, not like a few years later.
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Re: MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby ecureilx » Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:48 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:Sia la... you would faulty goods return it immediately, not like a few years later.


Anyway, talking about China stuff.

A recent renovation in a building included replacing the escalators. The winning bidder was a OEM manufacturer for OTIS or somebody.

So the winning supplier makes the escalator, sends it to Singapore, and once arrived, they find the size is off by a an inch, so they ship it back to China to re-do a new one, and then the new one - again gets shipped - all shipped by sea freight. Instead of 30 days, the renovation took 90 ++ days.

Ah, the same suppliers' OTIS output exceed the standards. Only when it comes to their own item, they let go of the QC somewhere.

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Re: MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 7:01 am

Is this true? If so, why the secrecy :???: ?


tipped off by a mainland source in the railway industry that SMRT was secretly shipping defective trains back to mainland China for replacement and repair by manufacturer CSR Sifang Locomotive & Rolling Stock Company Ltd (CSR Sifang).



http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/07 ... -minister/

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Re: MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby Barnsley » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 10:22 am

Just waiting .........

:-" :-" :-" :-"
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Re: MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby Barnsley » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 10:24 am

ecureilx wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:so apparently 26/35 of the SMRT trains were found to be defective and some were shipped back..

http://bfy.tw/6b3G

as usual comments on social media were hilarious

Claim to be of First World standard but buy Cheapskate trains with third world standard.....so malu.

Good luck to all those electronics parts even if they repaired it. Do you think the parts are genuine or Great Wall or Flying Eagle brand?

Shame on our government, alway look for bargain. Worldwide know , Ah Tiong machinery is one of the worst in Safety Standard yet they choose to buy from them.

lucky got warranty??? Lucky your dick head lah....

more break down expected, to cover that more fare hikes coming


PS, they were Kawasaki design, outsourced to China.

PS, where does iPhones come from ?

Coat, Hat, Umbrella ....


I am no fan of Apple, but they just have assembly in China , I suspect almost ZERO components of their phones are manufactured in China.

All the "new MRT trains" are from Joint ventures in China be it either Kawasaki or ALstom.

Original trains were manufactured in Japan/France , the new stuff all from China.
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Re: MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 12:20 pm

This from a Singaporean Train Engineer with insider information taken from a closed FB group of which I am a member. It's unknown if he is still in the Industry but he took the time to assemble all his knowledge and data below. I've copied it in it's entirety as append it below......

I've promised {name removed} to do this write up since I have the knowledge about MRT trains on hand.
(Huge mountains of words. I will advice all friends here to read through very slowly and understand the mountains.)
========================================
Today's episode dates back all the way to the 1980s when Singapore is building its first MRT lines the North South and East West Lines (NSEWL).
Before I start, some abbreviations to define:
NSEWL - North South East West Line
NSL - North South Line
EWL - East West line
TEL - Thomson East Coast Line, Singapore's 6th MRT line.
C151 - Contract 151 (the first NSEWL MRT train contract in 1980s)
C651 - Contract 651 (the second NSEWL MRT train contract in 1990s)
C751B - Contract 751B (the third NSEWL MRT train contract in 1999)
C151A - Contract 151A (the fourth NSEWL MRT train contract in 2009)
C151B - Contract 151B (the fifth NSEWL MRT train contract in 2012)
C151C - Contract 151C (the sixth NSEWL MRT train contract in 2015)
CT251 - Contract T251 (the TEL MRT train contract in 2014)
KNS - Kawasaki-Nippon Sharyo JV (manufacturer of C751Bs)
KSF - Kawasaki CSR Qingdao Sifang JV (manufacturer of C151A, C151B, C151C and CT251)
========================================
Operation and Administration:
LTA (Successor of 1980s MRTC) sets the design specifications for rolling stocks and called for bidding of contracts. LTA purchases the trains and lease them to the operators (SMRT & SBS Transit).
The operator, SMRT Trains in this case, will just simply operate and maintain the trains. SMRT DOES NOT PURCHASE THE TRAINS.
========================================
Some brief history:
1983: Bidding for the first MRT contract (Contract 151; C151) was opened. Because this is Singapore's first MRT contract, it attracted lots of bidders from around the world. This contract was for the supply of 66 trains for the NSEWL.
Three companies stood out eventually.
British firm Metro Cammell, which supplied trains for HK MTR in 1970s was seen as advantageous. It also supplied metro trains for the London Underground. Hence, making it even more likely to win C151.
Japanese firm Kawasaki, was second preferred. Together with Tokyu Car Corp, Kinki Sharyo and Nippon Sharyo, the four firms form a JV with Kawasaki as leader.
ASEA was third.
1984: Apparently, something happened to Metro Cammell overseas, causing MRT Corporation (MRTC) to be wary of MC and turned to Kawasaki. Kawasaki won the first MRT Contract 151 (C151).
1987: The MRT was officially launched with these Kawasaki trains.
Because of their excellent performance, MRTC looked to Kawasaki for future contracts.
1990: However MRTC decided to try out something new, hence awarding the next contract, Contract 651 (C651) to German firm Siemens. This contract calls for 19 trains to supplement the opening of the MRT's Woodlands extension. The C651 trains entered service in 1996.
However, initial teething problems were detected in the Siemens trains, hence, LTA (MRTC successor) in 1999 awarded the contract 751B (C751B) to supply 21 trains for the Changi Airport Line to Kawasaki again, with Nippon Sharyo roped in to form a JV. Because of Kawasaki-Nippon Sharyo forming the JV, we nicknamed them "KNS" from the initials.
2003: However the new KNS trains were withdrawn from service due to multiple faults involving train motors and gears. Kawasaki engineers were called in to rectify the problems. SMRT hence, suspended these trains and in the meantime, deployed the old Kawasaki C151 trains on the Airport Line. The KNS trains returned to service a year later.
Over the years, due to competitive markets, the subcontractors for the 1983 C151 were either closed for good or had acquired smaller firms and stopped working with Kawasaki.
2008/9: LTA called for Contract 151A (C151A) to supply 22 new NSEWL trains. Kawasaki CSR Qingdao Sifang JV (KSF) won the bid. However, it is to note that it wasn't the cheapest bid. Kawasaki CSR JV was only second to South Korean Hyundai Rotem. The Koreans gave the lowest bid price. LTA's principle was that it prefers Kawasaki over the rest because of quality and working relationships. Hyundai Rotem was rejected because of a door incident on the MTR trains in HK. Siemens was also rejected because of the 1996 teething problems here. Another firm, Canadian-German firm Bombardier, was rejected too, because of the highest price tag.
27 May 2011: Five new KSF C151A trains were put into revenue service in the early morning. 17 more were progressively delivered.
Mid 2011: One of the KSF C151A trains had a damaged battery and was removed from service for 6 months. KSF engineers were called in to fix the fault. It was back in service in November 2011. At the same time, LTA ordered 13 more C151A KSF trains.
15 & 17 Dec 2011: The worst MRT disruption happened on the North South Line, sparking public outrage. SMRT had initially suspected the KSF C151A trains were the main cause of the breakdown because the mass of the KSF trains were the heaviest among the NSEWL fleet. Experts from TÜV SUD were called in to inspect. The experts concluded however, that the KSF C151A trains did not cause the disruptions and instead it was the flat wheels on the KNS C751B trains that created vibrations on the tracks causing the third rail to dislodge.
Early 2012: Meanwhile, to ensure security, SMRT deployed all the 22 C151A KSF trains onto the East West Line which had no problems with the trains causing a significant degrade in efficiency on the NSL.
Late 2012: LTA called for the bidding of Contract 151B (C151B) for the supply of 45 new trains for the NSEWL. KSF JV won the contract. Again, Hyundai Rotem, Siemens and Bombardier lost. A Spanish firm, CAF, also lost the bid. The trains will be progressively on service starting 2016.
2013-2014: The second batch of 13 C151A KSF trains arrived and were progressively deployed on the NSEWL. LTA has altogether now 35 C151A KSF trains.
Mid 2014: LTA called for the bidding of Contract T251 (CT251) for the supply of 91 trains for the Thomson-East Coast Line (TEL). The CT251 trains were scheduled to progressively enter service in 2019.
2015: CT251 was awarded to KSF JV for S$749 million. This was the cheapest bid price, outdoing Hyundai Rotem by only 16 million. Hyundai Rotem offered S$765 million for TEL CT251.
Mid 2015: LTA called for the bidding of Contract 151C (C151C) for the supply of 12 new trains for the NSEWL. KSF JV won the contract. The C151C KSF trains are to enter service progressively from 2019 onwards.
2016: A significant proportion of C151B KSF trains were delivered and are now stored in the newly built Tuas Depot meant for the new Tuas West Extension of the EWL. These trains are equipped with a new signalling system which will be implemented soon this year on NSL.
========================================
Worth noting is, however, the KNS C751Bs had a lot of problems too. With the most serious being the 2003 incident. And recently the KNS trains had air-conditioning problems too, owing to its "KNS" nickname. But these problems and the suspension of the trains were made public.
When the KSF C151A trains first entered service, all were well until in the afternoon, they were withdrawn from service due to multiple faults. Each train had its own fault.
However, there are some details out there available about the KSF are its weight:
226 tonnes (no load)
335 tonnes (laden)
In the 2011 disruption, SMRT first suspected the KSF C151A trains to be the main cause of the incident because mainly of its weight when loaded. They were disputed thereafter by LTA and TÜV SUD. Still, however, SMRT fed back to LTA that the KSF trains were problematic and to keep an eye on KSF.
Unknowingly, however, the addition of the new KSF trains between 2012 and 2014 sparked a series of unprecedented power failures on the NSEWL sparking more concerns whether it was simply just LTA's slow action in upgrading power supply systems.
Was there QC done by KSF? There is supposed to be QC done. But we do not know yet whether they were adhered to accordingly.
Why were Hyundai Rotem, Siemens, CAF and Bombardier rejected for every NSEWL train contracts? Simple. LTA favours Kawasaki for the great performance of the C151 trains and has a very warm working relationship with Kawasaki. Even though the losing teams put up very modern proposals and even with Hyundai Rotem given the lowest price, LTA still choose Kawasaki simply because of the above.
Siemens had problems with the train doors initially in 1996. Hyundai Rotem too in Hong Kong MTR. So LTA didn't choose these two. But please note, those were 1990s incidents. These two firms clinched many more deals later on over the years as their trains get better and better in terms of reliability.
However by keeping a biased opinion about Siemens and Hyundai Rotem , LTA is putting itself at risk of having lower quality products from the same supplier Kawasaki as it rest on its laurels thinking that it will forever earn Singapore's deals.
So why only now were these information shared? Two words: Confidential information.
How will this affect the major stakeholders (LTA, SMRT, SBS Transit and public)? SMRT and SBS Transit are both bidding for the new Thomson-East Coast Line, with such a big news, they will now be more wary of Kawasaki, especially SMRT since it operates 3 generations of Kawasaki trains on the NSEWL, with more to come. As for the public, they will of course be wary of safety and reliability. What about LTA? LTA may be pressured heavily to re-tender C151C and CT251 and award to another train maker with better track records.
There will be a lot of questions asked and to be answered. I can only answer to the best of whatever knowledge I have. LTA's accountability is at stake.

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Re: MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 12:57 pm

Great information. Thank you.

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Re: MRT carriages being shipped back to china and stuff..

Postby Barnsley » Fri, 15 Jul 2016 6:55 pm

LTA Taking over the operating assets from Oct 1st ....

=D> =D> =D>
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