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Property market - your take

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valleyman
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Property market - your take

Postby valleyman » Fri, 03 Jun 2016 4:30 pm

I am looking to get a private property here and have been on the lookout for good deals. property agents and those with vested interests have advised me to commit, showing me so called "value buys". However, I am not fully convinced that the market has bottomed out yet. On the other hand if MAS comes up with measures to ease the curbs on property buying, similar to what it has done for the auto industry, then the price may zoom again, considering the amount of people waiting on the sidelines.

What do you think ? Should I wait for 6/9/12 months ?

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Re: Property market - your take

Postby Barnsley » Fri, 03 Jun 2016 4:44 pm

valleyman wrote: However, I am not fully convinced that the market has bottomed out yet.


If you think by the time you want exit the market the price will be higher than it is now , why don't you buy now?
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Re: Property market - your take

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 03 Jun 2016 10:29 pm

When this gets built... and it's a question of when, not if... there will definitely be plenty of bargain properties in Singapore.

http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2016/01/ ... silk-road/

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Re: Property market - your take

Postby calugaruvaxile » Fri, 03 Jun 2016 11:55 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:When this gets built... and it's a question of when, not if... there will definitely be plenty of bargain properties in Singapore.

http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2016/01/ ... silk-road/


maybe my children will see the kra canal built, as i don't think i'll live long enough (i'm 39).

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Re: Property market - your take

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 06 Jun 2016 11:23 am

Property prices in Singapore track the oil price to some extent. You can use that as a predictor of prices.
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Re: Property market - your take

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 06 Jun 2016 11:24 am

I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.

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Max Headroom
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Re: Property market - your take

Postby Max Headroom » Mon, 06 Jun 2016 9:47 pm

I heard that canal has been vetoed by the Thai Powers That Be. Then again, in time, it will probably be built anyway, as China has too much to gain and too much money to let the thing be blocked for any length of time.

Also, apparently, it looks like from this year, the North Pole will be practically ice-free. Read: more shortcuts.

Times, they are a changing.

Be that as it may, I'm not expecting a property rout here; prices have been pretty sticky. So far anyway. But I do think that agents and owners will have plenty of years ahead of them during which to be fondly reminiscing over its heyday.

In fact, I doubt property will ever return to its former glory. Why? Because the supply and demand equation will never be as out of sync as it has been several times in the past. Sure, there may be a new population uptick yet. But it'll be a fraction of the surges we've seen.

Take this against a significant overhang of units in the pipeline, imminently rising interest rates, auction sales numbers that look to be eclipsing past downturns, and it becomes pretty clear that property only has one way to go. Down.

But I think this is a good thing; in contrast with what most people think, there's no real benefit to inflated property.

Bring on the correction.

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Re: Property market - your take

Postby JR8 » Tue, 07 Jun 2016 12:56 am

valleyman wrote:I am looking to get a private property here and have been on the lookout for good deals. property agents and those with vested interests have advised me to commit, showing me so called "value buys".


This is more info than you were probably after :) but the suggestion of 'deals' got my ears pricked up. And since I used to be a small-time property developer I thought I'd lay down some perspective for you...

How will you know a 'good deal' when you think you see one? You can't trust many agents IME, unless you have established a proven relationship with them. The latter likely involves them benefiting from knowing you will 'perform' and get the deal done so that they get paid*. Until then IME you're just Joe Average like everyone else. 'Deals' get first offered to a small group of likely pre-proven professional dealers/investors. What gets offered to the masses are just what's on offer, and not 'deals'.

You can burnish your credentials in the eyes of an agent by:
[Apologies if this is teaching 'egg-sucking' etc, but you'd be amazed at the proportion of buyers who have not really even considered the following]
- What you can afford.
- What areas you are looking at
- What size property you want
- What type of property; new, established, older, 'period'...
- What type :- facilities, low-floor, hi-floor, garden/terrace?, proximity to transport etc
-- Preferably you've done good reading up, know all the above, it all stacks up, and is possible, hopefully probably within the agents target area.

This can be further enhanced by:
- Being chain-free
- If you need a mortgage, having it 'agreed in principle' [i.e. pre-approved, just waiting for you to find a property].
- Having a lawyer/conveyancer already instructed, awaiting instructions.
-- Having a lower LTV% on any loan, such that if a valuer decides at the last hurdle the place is worth less than the asking price it doesn't blow your gearing and plans right out of the water.
Being able to confirm the above, will get you credit with the agent.

Further creds, professional-level, are:
- Being able to complete the deal without having to get a building survey done. [not needing a mortgage helps]. Having the knowledge to spot major issues yourself (collapsed drains, damp, subsidence etc) helps too.
- If the vendor's sale is urgent: At the extreme you can agree and complete a deal without even viewing the property, and possibly even within 1/2 a day from hearing of a place to closing the contract. That's at the er... hard-core dealer end of things, and it's where a lot of potential profit lies. But as you will understand, getting yourself into that position takes experience, track-record etc...

So when it's suggested you might be offered 'deals', then I'd ask why. Who is actually likely to benefit from this? What do I have that deserves a special look in to such opportunities?... or am I just a another typical buyer, being promised snake-oil...




* For smaller developers the agent gets double bite of the cherry. Once from you performing during the purchase. AND an unspoken but known assumption [silent agreement] that when you have redeveloped the property, then it will be re-listed back through that agent. As you can imagine, if you understand that and perform, the 'deals' will naturally flow your way.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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valleyman
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Re: Property market - your take

Postby valleyman » Tue, 07 Jun 2016 8:10 am

Thanks all for the responses.

JR8 - thanks for the detailed response. I am crystal clear on my needs, budget and location and have specified that to the agents helping me out. Infact there are only 5/6 resale family condos that I am looking at, as this will be for my own stay. Don't wan't a new property as there is a lot of wasted space in newer units. I have decoupled my other property, have a lawyer known to me, but will need a mortagage and probably should get a pre-approval as you suggested. Shouldn't be a problem though.

I completely agree on what you say about so called "deals" being offered to me, a retail buyer. I am looking at past transactions of the same size to guage if its a good buy, though it all depends on the actual unit.

What I am surprised is with the laziness and imcompetence of most of the agents here. Even in times like these most of them do not want to hunt and would rather wait for things to fall in their lap. They do not want to venture out of their comfort zones. Some of them didn't even know the size of the unit they were showing me or the TOP date. I had to tell them! I get very nervous around such agents.

I will keep on the lookout and see the same units that are on my shortlist, 6 months from now. BTW, when an agent tells me that the valuation of a unit is "x" how trustworthy is that ? Is he bound by it ? Can my bank's valuation be significantly lower than that and can I back out if thats the case ?

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Re: Property market - your take

Postby Max Headroom » Tue, 07 Jun 2016 3:59 pm

valleyman wrote:BTW, when an agent tells me that the valuation of a unit is "x" how trustworthy is that ? Is he bound by it ? Can my bank's valuation be significantly lower than that and can I back out if thats the case ?


I'm a happy renter but I will be buying at some point. This position gives me the buyer's perspective on property. My brother in law has been a property agent for many years and this gives me another perspective. But I'm also obliquely involved in a property-related business, which does well when property thrives. This provides me with an altogether different slant on property.

Given these perspectives, I can tell you that the day I enter the buyer's market, I will trust nobody. Not a single person. Whatever it is I'm being told, I will never assume it's necessarily the truth.

That means I'll need to do a lot of research myself, which will undoubtedly be time-consuming and boring. Still, the fact that one day, I'm going to be dependent on what property agents and owners will be telling me gives me the shivers.

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Re: Property market - your take

Postby JR8 » Tue, 07 Jun 2016 11:45 pm

Yr comments re: local agents. Some are good (guarded comments, since this website is hosted courtesy of a SGn agent), but many I've used are not. It's like they expect you to do the ground-work, and piece it all together, with them just driving you around one from place to another.

So agents in the UK get a slagging for being 'useless'... but, well...
Yep, some units you see and perhaps offer on will still be available at the same price in 6 months time. It's a peculiar local pride thing. Better to face a 6 month void, than 'gift' a tenant a slightly reduced price to get the place rented. In a way agents in SG can be just like the LLs, they've never had to face hard times, really work to let a place, never negotiate hard.... it's always been good and easy times where they've dictated the terms.
And gawd no.... never trust the opinion of a SGn agent, and no it's certainly not in any way binding on them. I sometimes think most of them just make up what they're telling you anyway...
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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Re: Property market - your take

Postby PNGMK » Wed, 08 Jun 2016 9:04 am

My only reeal comment of any value is that when the market collapses (or deflates) in Singapore it does it very sharply IME. Rats off a sinking ship but mainly because the majority of investors are facing the same issue (soft rental market and/or increasing interest rates = mass offloading). I think we might be coming to one of those times.
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