Singapore Expats Forum

Teenage Son Considering PR

A moderated forum for serious discussions only.
User avatar
skipper
Regular
Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon, 16 Apr 2012

Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby skipper » Mon, 23 May 2016 12:26 pm

My family has been in Singapore for more than 9 years -- my wife and myself are PR's while my sons are foreigners on student passes. Yes, we applied just for ourselves and indicated in our application that our sons will decide for themselves (although we all know that PR approvals were easier back in 2009). And our PR renewals went through without a hitch.

The 2 older ones are in the local school system while my youngest son is in an International School. They are in a "top" local secondary school under the Integrated Program -- means they skip the O levels and automatically get a place in a junior college where they will take A levels for university placement. This is where the uncertainty lies as university places in Singapore are limited, especially for foreigners. Even if he gets accepted in a university here, he thinks his job prospects will be limited even for entry level jobs. Will this be an accurate assessment of the job market for him?

My eldest son wants to study, work and live in Singapore and is thinking of becoming a PR. He doesn't mind doing NS -- though my wife thinks that he can defer his application until he either finishes his university degree (assuming he gets accepted) or reaches 21 years old which makes him a first gen PR. Is this correct?

Appreciate your thoughts and advice on this. Many thanks.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35123
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 23 May 2016 12:43 pm

My honest thoughts? You may well have burned his chances to go to university. I hope I'm wrong, but Mindef doesn't like it when you try to screw with the system.

User avatar
skipper
Regular
Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon, 16 Apr 2012

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby skipper » Mon, 23 May 2016 12:48 pm

By not including my sons in the PR application, I gamed the system? I specifically indicated in my application that they will decide on their own -- which is what they (or at least my eldest son) is doing now. So no meritocracy then if he aced his A levels -- he won't get any university place?

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5676
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 23 May 2016 1:05 pm

1. You can't defer NS for university studies except in exceptional cases or on a scholarship for medicine.

2. I agree PR and NS is a good idea if he wants to engage with Singapore.

3. The default is that they finish their education (when the path ends... wherever) and then no longer get student passes and move onto either EP or work overseas.
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35123
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 23 May 2016 2:28 pm

skipper wrote:By not including my sons in the PR application, I gamed the system? I specifically indicated in my application that they will decide on their own -- which is what they (or at least my eldest son) is doing now. So no meritocracy then if he aced his A levels -- he won't get any university place?


Whether you write little pleading love letters with your application matters not a whit to them. You got PR but their memories are long. You see, you gamed the system by not committing them to NS and PR all those years ago, but you were ready and willing to use the resources of the country to educate him. They've see your kind many, many times and are wise to the game. I'd be very surprised, even if he tops his cohort if there will be "a place available" when it's time to do tertiary education in a local institution without having at least registered for NS by the age of 16.5 years. They frown on this kind of activity as it just creates a precedence that they can ill afford. I'll just leave you with this....

Good Luck. I think he may need it.

Apt choice of a nick, by the way.

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5676
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 23 May 2016 2:38 pm

It might help the OP to know one thing; the age of majority is 21 in Singapore. Children don't make up their minds before then (legally).
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
skipper
Regular
Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon, 16 Apr 2012

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby skipper » Mon, 23 May 2016 3:31 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
skipper wrote:By not including my sons in the PR application, I gamed the system? I specifically indicated in my application that they will decide on their own -- which is what they (or at least my eldest son) is doing now. So no meritocracy then if he aced his A levels -- he won't get any university place?


Whether you write little pleading love letters with your application matters not a whit to them. You got PR but their memories are long. You see, you gamed the system by not committing them to NS and PR all those years ago, but you were ready and willing to use the resources of the country to educate him. They've see your kind many, many times and are wise to the game. I'd be very surprised, even if he tops his cohort if there will be "a place available" when it's time to do tertiary education in a local institution without having at least registered for NS by the age of 16.5 years. They frown on this kind of activity as it just creates a precedence that they can ill afford. I'll just leave you with this....

Good Luck. I think he may need it.

Apt choice of a nick, by the way.


Wow, you say it like we're the worst of the lot here and that luck is the only thing that can "save" my eldest son if he wants to continue studying, working and eventually settling here. We'll I guess you been there, done that and seen so many of these cases -- or have you actually come into exactly the same situation of getting PR before the onset of NS? Or you just assume that once we gamed the system there's no longer any recourse? Your last comment is already biased against any favourable possibilities for my son. Thank you, at least, for wishing him luck.

User avatar
skipper
Regular
Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon, 16 Apr 2012

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby skipper » Mon, 23 May 2016 3:34 pm

PNGMK wrote:1. You can't defer NS for university studies except in exceptional cases or on a scholarship for medicine.

2. I agree PR and NS is a good idea if he wants to engage with Singapore.

3. The default is that they finish their education (when the path ends... wherever) and then no longer get student passes and move onto either EP or work overseas.


He still needs to finish secondary and he knows he needs to do NS after JC (so before university). That's why he is looking at becoming a PR already at this time. Otherwise, agree that what you say is default is what will happen. Thanks.

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5676
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 23 May 2016 4:00 pm

skipper wrote:
PNGMK wrote:1. You can't defer NS for university studies except in exceptional cases or on a scholarship for medicine.

2. I agree PR and NS is a good idea if he wants to engage with Singapore.

3. The default is that they finish their education (when the path ends... wherever) and then no longer get student passes and move onto either EP or work overseas.


He still needs to finish secondary and he knows he needs to do NS after JC (so before university). That's why he is looking at becoming a PR already at this time. Otherwise, agree that what you say is default is what will happen. Thanks.


Item 3 (EP) may not happen if he does not obtain PR and do NS on reflection. I know of a guy could KEith Steele in the same boat whose 3 sons have been offered fantastic positions here only to run into the problem of being a son of a PR that didn't do NS and hence not being able to obtain EP's.
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35123
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 23 May 2016 4:04 pm

They always hate it when somebody calls a spade and spade. I wish him luck and hope he remembers to thanks his parents for putting him in this predicament.

And yes, I have both 1st hand and personal experience in these things. Although my son did his NS. He couldn't avoid it as I was going to make sure that he did. My Boss's son has to thank his father for his current problems as he was kept on a student visa and eventually graduated from a London University with a BSc & MSc in Civil engineering. He was supposed to return back to Singapore to join the company his father owns, but all applications for EP are rejected because there is a note attached to the rejection letters that he currently has issues with Mindef that need to be sorted out. *He's never been a PR here, and is a UK citizen. but when through all his schooling in Singapore on a Student Visa, then to the UK for his tertiary education. I told his father 8 or 9 years ago what was going to happen, but he didn't believe me. Thought he knew it all. Now the son's is playing hide & seek with ICA and it's just a matter of time before he hung out to dry. (In his case the mother is a PR and the Father is a citizen - the son is a UK citizen).

If you happen to be from a 3rd world country it will be even harder.

User avatar
skipper
Regular
Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon, 16 Apr 2012

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby skipper » Mon, 23 May 2016 5:08 pm

Thank you both. We'll just have to live then with the choices we made, prepare accordingly and see how it goes. Singapore should not be the end all and be all for him (or for anyone in a similar situation) anyway.

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5676
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 23 May 2016 5:58 pm

skipper wrote:Thank you both. We'll just have to live then with the choices we made, prepare accordingly and see how it goes. Singapore should not be the end all and be all for him (or for anyone in a similar situation) anyway.


Caste it in a positive light.... he is in an excellent position to secure a great position here if he does NS, has SPR and a good qualification.

My son (son of a PR father and a mother who is a SC) is progressing through the school system and Police Cadets with an aplomb that astounds me... He will be a success here for sure. And of course he is planning on doing NS and will probably give up his Australian Citizenship at 21.
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
skipper
Regular
Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon, 16 Apr 2012

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby skipper » Mon, 23 May 2016 8:49 pm

PNGMK wrote:
skipper wrote:Thank you both. We'll just have to live then with the choices we made, prepare accordingly and see how it goes. Singapore should not be the end all and be all for him (or for anyone in a similar situation) anyway.


Caste it in a positive light.... he is in an excellent position to secure a great position here if he does NS, has SPR and a good qualification.

My son (son of a PR father and a mother who is a SC) is progressing through the school system and Police Cadets with an aplomb that astounds me... He will be a success here for sure. And of course he is planning on doing NS and will probably give up his Australian Citizenship at 21.


As he is below 21 we will have to apply PR for him. Does that mean that we will need to include my two others sons in the application? My youngest son is in an intl school. Not sure if ICA will entertain an application just for my eldest son.

User avatar
PNGMK
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5676
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013
Location: Sinkapore

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 23 May 2016 9:08 pm

I don't see why they would not entertain it. You can explain in a letter that the other two have plans that remove them from considering Singapore citizenship in the future. (Because PR is meant to lead to SC).
IANAL. IANACPA. IANA Teacher.
Arrested? Lawyer Up
International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
School advice? Avoid for profit schools
Tax advice? CPA
Pay me $5k for 100% success filling in PR form!

User avatar
taxico
Director
Director
Posts: 3190
Joined: Sat, 10 May 2008
Location: Existential dilemma!

Re: Teenage Son Considering PR

Postby taxico » Tue, 07 Jun 2016 10:54 pm

skipper wrote:...in a "top" local secondary school under the Integrated Program -- means they skip the O levels and automatically get a place in a junior college where they will take A levels for university placement. This is where the uncertainty lies as university places in Singapore are limited, especially for foreigners. Even if he gets accepted in a university here, he thinks his job prospects will be limited even for entry level jobs. Will this be an accurate assessment of the job market for him?

My eldest son wants to study, work and live in Singapore and is thinking of becoming a PR. He doesn't mind doing NS...


what area do you think your son will be interested in at university?
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Strictly Speaking”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest