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UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 2:22 am

JR8 wrote:If anyone needs another confirmation that the European Union is fundamentally the most anti-democratic entity currently in existence....

Hyperbole, of course. And irrelevant to the United Kingdom's own actions and next steps.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 3:07 am

BBCWatcher wrote:Keep dreaming. And not at all credible when Scotland is headed for the exit...from the United Kingdom.


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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:33 pm

In another economic development, Standard & Poors has dropped its rating on U.K. sovereign debt from AAA to AA. That's actually a two step downgrade, below the EU's AA+ rating. France, a country which doesn't even have its own currency, also has a AA rating.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby x9200 » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:53 pm

JR8 wrote:
x9200 wrote:Brexit: Wave of hate crime and racial abuse reported after EU referendum
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 04191.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-camb ... e-36633388
I am not sure if these are some zealots spreading hysteria, it's simply in concern and that's why was quoted. Also, don't get me wrong, I just wanted to support a point I already made earlier - there seems to be a lot of problems with the understanding among the voters what they were actually voting for.


Hate crime of various sorts is nothing new, is it credible to suggest these hate crimes directly result from the BREXIT vote?

I am not sure what you think I suggest. If this is that Brexit made up some xenophobes, then of course not. If, that it made xenophobes to get encouraged and switch from passive to active, then yes, I think this what is happening. But again, that's not really my point.
Let me rephrase. Do you really feel fine that the referendum was won by such small fraction with people who voted by the racial hatred, by the less educated population that probably don't have enough insight to comprehend the whole complexity of the governing issues, and by the elderly? You emphasized on what was promised back in the 70s and that the promise was broken, but this whole referendum looks like one giantic manipulation to me. The end justifies the means? I was actually pretty positive to what has happened until I saw the voting statistics.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 1:42 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:In another economic development, Standard & Poors has dropped its rating on U.K. sovereign debt from AAA to AA. That's actually a two step downgrade, below the EU's AA+ rating. France, a country which doesn't even have its own currency, also has a AA rating.


Again , these paid shills still get airtime , it beggars belief!!!
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 1:44 pm

x9200 wrote:
JR8 wrote:
x9200 wrote:Brexit: Wave of hate crime and racial abuse reported after EU referendum
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 04191.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-camb ... e-36633388
I am not sure if these are some zealots spreading hysteria, it's simply in concern and that's why was quoted. Also, don't get me wrong, I just wanted to support a point I already made earlier - there seems to be a lot of problems with the understanding among the voters what they were actually voting for.


Hate crime of various sorts is nothing new, is it credible to suggest these hate crimes directly result from the BREXIT vote?

I am not sure what you think I suggest. If this is that Brexit made up some xenophobes, then of course not. If, that it made xenophobes to get encouraged and switch from passive to active, then yes, I think this what is happening. But again, that's not really my point.
Let me rephrase. Do you really feel fine that the referendum was won by such small fraction with people who voted by the racial hatred, by the less educated population that probably don't have enough insight to comprehend the whole complexity of the governing issues, and by the elderly? You emphasized on what was promised back in the 70s and that the promise was broken, but this whole referendum looks like one giantic manipulation to me. The end justifies the means? I was actually pretty positive to what has happened until I saw the voting statistics.


Mate its very upsetting , the whole thing has blown up and nobody has a clue on what to do to get everyone going more or less in the same direction.

Boris has already said that there wont be any changes to current polisy apparently , thus other than him wanting to oust Cameron as Tory party leader I really dont see what he was in the leave camp for.

The stories that have started appearing on the Xenophobic outburts sadly will come from folk that have been whipped up into frenzy.
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby Mexikaner » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 3:28 pm

From BBC news:
"...Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has become the first cabinet minister to join the petition in favour of a second referendum on EU membership...Mr Hunt is calling for the start of the withdrawal process - Article 50 - to be delayed until shortly before the next scheduled general election in 2020, which would mean Britain would not leave until after 2022 at the earliest..."

:???: :???: :???:
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 5:00 pm

Mexikaner wrote:From BBC news:
"...Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has become the first cabinet minister to join the petition in favour of a second referendum on EU membership...Mr Hunt is calling for the start of the withdrawal process - Article 50 - to be delayed until shortly before the next scheduled general election in 2020, which would mean Britain would not leave until after 2022 at the earliest..."

:???: :???: :???:


I believe that this is the rules , its a complete farce.......

Nobody has a clue whats happening ](*,) ](*,)
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby ScoobyDoes » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 6:53 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:7. Gibraltar's Chief Minister, Fabian Picardo, is discussing with Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon the possibility of Scotland, Gibraltar, and perhaps also Northern Ireland remaining within the EU as the "successor state" to the United Kingdom (or something like it). This would be roughly similar to Greenland's exit (part of Denmark), in this case with England and Wales playing the role of Greenland. So it technically wouldn't be the United Kingdom that departs the EU but rather only England and Wales -- and perhaps even under some other mechanism than Article 50. Gibraltar then presumably would be a Scottish overseas territory.



I still haven't figured out why the SNP want to sign up for an EU that is either due for massive changes, in which case we won't know what it will look like OR no change at all in which case being out of it with separate FTAs worldwide might actually work out in the long term. This is especially true if no change also means the likes of France, Holland and even Germany later get so fed up with Brussels.

Maybe a reformed EU will work in Scotland's favour, maybe not, but signing up to the Euro sure as heck at the moment is a side effect not welcomed.
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 8:41 pm

The FTSE intra-day [+2.7% right now] fought up through resistance at/around 6125, and is currently at 6146. In technical analysis terms, there is significance to the upside if the price today remains above 6130 for an hour, aka in charting terms a 'closed hourly candle'.
Well, it's been half an hour now and still rising... the next half should be interesting...
It's going to be volatile short and medium-term, but it appears some foundation of stability is being created.

- now 6150
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Re: RE: Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby Wd40 » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 8:47 pm

JR8 wrote:The FTSE intra-day [+2.7% right now] fought up through resistance at/around 6125, and is currently at 6146. In technical analysis terms, there is significance to the upside if the price today remains above 6130 for an hour, aka in charting terms a 'closed hourly candle'.
Well, it's been half an hour now and still rising... the next half should be interesting...
It's going to be volatile short and medium-term, but it appears some foundation of stability is being created.

- now 6150

I have just bought a small amount in Franklin Templeton European Growth fund. This is for LTBH, hopefully

http://www.franklintempleton.com.sg/en- ... /Portfolio

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 8:51 pm

Northern Ireland is presently part of the European Union but not part of the Eurozone. Its voters prefer that arrangement and just voted "Remain."

Some more developments:

1. The two stock market trading days after the referendum now go into the history books as the biggest two day selloff in history, at least in dollar terms. About $3 trillion was wiped off the world's stock markets in those two days. On the third day there's (so far) a slight uptick, generally speaking.

2. There is at least some circumstantial evidence developing now that the real U.K. economy is seizing up. Sir Richard Branson reports that the referendum result meant a pending Virgin Money business venture blew up (investors pulled out), costing 3,000 jobs he estimates. The Bank of England has provided £3 billion in additional liquidity to banks.

3. The European Commission makes it official: no negotiations, formal or informal, until the United Kingdom invokes Article 50. Jean-Claude Juncker said there won't even be "secret negotiations" pre-Article 50. The European Parliament passed a resolution urging the U.K. government to invoke Article 50 "as soon as possible." Nigel Farage was booed, but Scotland's MEP received a standing ovation with this speech: "I want my country to be internationalist, cooperative, ecological, fair, European. And the people of Scotland, along with the people of Northern Ireland and the people of London and lots and lots of people in Wales and England also voted to remain within our family of nations. I demand that that status and that esprit européen be respected. Colleagues, there are a lot of things to be negotiated. We will need cool heads and warm hearts. And please remember this: Scotland did not let you down. Please, I beg you, do not let Scotland down now."

4. Mark Rutte, the Dutch prime minister, is a close ally of the United Kingdom. Reporters asked him what he thought of the referendum as he headed into the EU leadership meeting (just after David Cameron, who is invited to this meeting but not the next one). He told reporters that England has "collapsed economically and politically."

5. The Liberal Democrats pledge that they will run in the next general election (whenever that is) on a "remain" manifesto. In other words, the LibDems will put the question again to the voting public, in the general election.

6. Angela Merkel and Italian prime minister Matteo Renzi have both said that the United Kingdom won't get to "cherrypick" only the good. Access to the Single Market is a package deal. Said Renzi: "It’s impossible to belong to [the] community only with the good things, and not with the bad things. In every family, if you belong to [the] family, you must accept the good things and the bad things. It is impossible to speak only about the single market and [not] accept the politics about migration. It’s impossible to be very communitarian about the economy and not about values. This is the problem, in my view, about this campaign." Merkel: "Free access to the single market to whichever country accepts the four freedoms of people, goods, services and capital."

7. Sadiq Khan, London's new mayor (and a key Remain figure), is now pushing for greater control over London's governance. He wants "the devolution of fiscal responsibility including tax raising powers, as well as more control over business and skills, housing and planning, transport, health and policing and criminal justice."

8. Plaid Cymru recommends that EU countries open diplomatic missions in Wales. Quoting part of the party's statement, "Plaid Cymru is calling on Welsh government to seek full and unfettered access to the UK’s diplomatic network in order to rebuild relations with our partners based on Welsh interests so that steps can be taken immediately to defend Welsh jobs and trade. Plaid Cymru is also issuing a plea to our EU partners to open diplomatic offices in Cardiff so that a firm foundation can be laid for constructive and distinct relations between Wales and the rest of Europe."

9. Boris Johnson and Theresa May are widely seen as the frontrunners for Tory leadership (and Number 10), but Liam Fox has now joined the leadership contest. Others may join these three.

10. The National Grid warns that electricity prices will rise, energy security will fall, and clean energy goals will be tougher to meet unless the United Kingdom can maintain access to the Internal Energy Market (IEM), part of the Single Market. It's concerned investment is drying up, and the sector needs £20 billion/year to retire dirty power plants. The Hinkley Point nuclear plant is in serious jeopardy.

11. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn held his first shadow cabinet meeting since Hilary Benn's ouster and the resignation of most of his shadow cabinet. About half his shadow cabinet posts remain unfilled. Corbyn faces a "no confidence" vote among the Parliamentary Labour Party, but thus far nobody has emerged to contest Corbyn for the leadership. The Labour Party elects its leader through a popular vote among its members. Polls suggest he enjoys strong popular support, and Labour is running neck-and-neck with the Tories (i.e. better than the last general election). Nonetheless, many MPs are unhappy with him. (Westminster really is quite disconnected right now from the public it supposedly serves.)
Last edited by BBCWatcher on Tue, 28 Jun 2016 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 8:52 pm

@WD - The Euro-Stoxx50 index is +3.15% intra-day, so since your fund likely re-prices on a daily basis that could be a smart move. Good luck!

Ftse got the xx30/+ candle, and is now toying with xx50.
It's going to be volatile ahead, but it's a good sign.

Today's technical outlook per IG this morning:
'The index has got off to a strong start this morning, as it moves towards the crucial 6130 mark. The existence of a symmetrical triangle formation highlights the indecision after Friday’s lows and as such, we await the breakout from this tightening range to provide us with direction. A closed hourly candle above 6130 would provide a more bullish outlook...'
http://www.ig.com/uk/indices-news/2016/ ... -dow-33043
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Wed, 29 Jun 2016 1:11 am

As for who is next to head for the exit...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... u-members/
'A recent survey by the Pew Research Centre found that only 38 per cent of France had a favourable view of the EU, marking an astonishing negative shift in attitudes towards Brussels since the 2009 financial crisis that has been mirrored to varying degrees all across Europe.
A poll last month by Ipsos-MORI found that nearly half of voters in eight big European Union countries want to be able to vote on whether to remain members of the bloc, with a third saying they would opt to leave, if given the choice.
Here we look, country by country, at Europe’s most imperiled member states...
Although the Netherlands is a founder EU member and currently holds the EU presidency, a June poll showed 54 per cent of people want a referendum on EU membership, while 48 per cent would vote to leave and 45 per cent to remain....
A pan-European survey by the Pew Research Center released ahead of the Brexit vote found that 61 per cent of French voters have an “unfavourable” view, compared to 48 per cent in the UK....
Britain’s decision to leave the EU has opened up deep fissures within Italy, a month after a survey found that 48 per cent of Italians would opt to leave the bloc if given the opportunity of a British-style referendum...
And unlike in Germany, there is public support for the idea of a referendum in Austria. A recent poll found that 40 per cent of Austrians want an “Auxit” referendum. A majority of 53 per cent said if there was a referendum, they would vote to remain. But it is a slim majority....
A recent poll for Stern magazine found that just 17 per cent of Germans would vote to leave in a referendum, while 79 per cent would vote to remain....
But despite the criticism of the EU, there is no prospect of Poland leaving the EU – a bloc that has bought it billions of Euros in development funds and access to the prosperous economies of Western Europe for its workers....To many Poles EU membership is also symbolic of the progress their country has made since the painful and economically shabby years of communism when they yearned for the freedoms, benefits and status being part of the Union conferred....
If Denmark did hold a referendum, historical precedent suggests it would go against the EU. Since joining in 1973, Danish voters have voted “no” in three of the country’s EU referendums...
[Sweden, Finland, Hungary are described as ambivalent/plans plans to change the status quo].


[My formatting, and bolding]
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