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UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby x9200 » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 8:34 pm

Apparently many of the Brexit supporters understood all the immigrants, including the legal ones. These supporters will also feel cheated after it eventually became apparent it was not the case.

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Yes, I know, morons are everywhere, but these are not like isolated cases.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 9:00 pm

It would be more plausible if it were in a respected news channel rather than Twitter. But sure all countries have xenophobes, Singapore, Germany, Poland, the US, the UK, all of them.
'Max Fras' - wonder what country he's from?
A picture of an old geezer with the right side of his head shaved bald - sane?
The Polish taxi driver won't have to leave; but it's just another one of the gleefully furious myths the rounds amongst the BREXINeers. It's almost like the BREXIN zealots are enjoying this hysteria of their own making. It's a very strange week!

If the EU was as as originally promised, just a small trade block of largely similar economies, none of this would be happening. It's because it's become far more than that via lies and stealth that the fall-out is larger. You might better point the finger at the politician liers rather than those who called it for what it is.

But this isn't just about BREXIT, it's perhaps about the end of the EU 'project' as we know it. The EU pols only have themselves to blame for it coming to this. Shame they effed it up so well eh?
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 9:02 pm

I have no sympathy for the Brit's, specifically the stoopid inbred outliers who suck on the welfare tit and then have the bloody gall to deprive the younger generation of a chance for a brighter future.

As I posted in an epic FB rant today:

"The "greatest generation" have left an earth polluted and wrecked while enjoying the benefits of free education, free or subsidized government functions and pensions that few of their descendants will enjoy. Excuse us for finding ways to cope. Check your privilege baby boomer. If you're going to bash a generation expect a punch back in the face. Your hypocrisy and blindness to the faults of that generation appall me. I and my descendants are left with a mess, a world falling apart, and environment spinning out of control while you collect your welfare and tut tut at us while voting for Trump, Brexit, no deficit allowed economics and you have the bloody gall to have a go at us? Hurry and leave this planet to us please; you clearly cannot be trusted with it or with the politics it entails." (No offense to actual servicemen or women who did fight legitimate evil and deserve their well earned pension).
I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby x9200 » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 9:31 pm

JR8 wrote:It would be more plausible if it were in a respected news channel rather than Twitter. But sure all countries have xenophobes, Singapore, Germany, Poland, the US, the UK, all of them.
'Max Fras' - wonder what country he's from?
A picture of an old geezer with the right side of his head shaved bald - sane?
The Polish taxi driver won't have to leave; but it's just another one of the gleefully furious myths the rounds amongst the BREXINeers. It's almost like the BREXIN zealots are enjoying this hysteria of their own making. It's a very strange week!


Brexit: Wave of hate crime and racial abuse reported after EU referendum
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 04191.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-camb ... e-36633388

I am not sure if these are some zealots spreading hysteria, it's simply in concern and that's why was quoted. Also, don't get me wrong, I just wanted to support a point I already made earlier - there seems to be a lot of problems with the understanding among the voters what they were actually voting for.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:42 pm

PNGMK wrote:I have no sympathy for the Brit's, specifically the stoopid inbred outliers who suck on the welfare tit and then have the bloody gall to deprive the younger generation of a chance for a brighter future.


Why would they want sympathy for getting what they've just voted for? Especially from a foreigner. A curious suggestion.
On another forum I post on re: current affairs there is an Aussie who perhaps left the UK for Aus in the 70s. He tends to be something of a single-issue poster and his thing is how the UK has recently 'abandoned' Australia, this despite his own family 'abandoning' the UK long ago.
And here you are PNG berating the Brits for not wishing to remain under Franco-German hegemony; beats me, why do you care?
And if you think the UK should continue accepting economic migrants from far and wide, presumably you are against your own governments policy of controlling immigration? No more deportations to Christmas Island, welcome them all in and give them free housing+free everything? I mean it would be hypocritical to not lead by self-less noble example eh? ;)

Certainly was a rant :) It is a shame the EU has triggered such a rift, but IMO this is just the beginning of something which will continue and become much wider. The EU is like the magician spinning his plates, the UK is the first that *might* fall. But be clear several other big plates are wobbling treacherously too.
But what makes you think any of what you mention is 'free'. It is the UK tax-payer that funds it, it isn't magic'ed from thin air. Citizens mind less about taxation when they feel they're getting fairness and value for money back. But why for example should they be content to fund everything in perpetuity for the boatload of Albanians that washed up in smugglers boats on a Kent beach a few days ago; following the hordes of others and similar who came before them?
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:56 pm

Ironically, the concern about Turkey is exactly backwards.

1. As a full EU member in good standing (even with all the wonderful derogations), the United Kingdom can (soon could, past tense) veto admission of any new member.

2. In order to maintain access to the common market without tariffs, the (dis)United Kingdom would have to agree to freedom of movement and contributions to the EU budget. That's called the EEA (or something very much like it), as with Norway. But in this Brexit scenario the United Kingdom has lost its veto. Only EU members get a veto. The (dis)United Kingdom would have zero say over whether or not Turkey joins and Turkish immigrants start coming into the United Kingdom.

3. ....Or don't maintain access to the common market.

Well played, England and Wales. :(

Of course there are Leave campaigners who claimed that the United Kingdom can maintain tariff-free access to the common market without freedom of movement and contributions to the EU budget. The chances of that coming to pass are somewhere between No F***king Way and NO F***KING WAY (You Morons). Post-referendum the Leave side is backpedalling furiously on this front (and others).

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 11:07 pm

x9200 wrote:Brexit: Wave of hate crime and racial abuse reported after EU referendum
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 04191.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-camb ... e-36633388
I am not sure if these are some zealots spreading hysteria, it's simply in concern and that's why was quoted. Also, don't get me wrong, I just wanted to support a point I already made earlier - there seems to be a lot of problems with the understanding among the voters what they were actually voting for.


Hate crime of various sorts is nothing new, is it credible to suggest these hate crimes directly result from the BREXIT vote? To be clear I think what you link is dreadful, all right-thinking people will too.
I think the way democracy was cast aside to arrive at the EU as it is today has created a lot of casualties, and a lot of anger that has had no vent. This is as a result of the EUs intransigent, undemocratic, arrogant 'There is NO reverse gear!' policies.

Spain had elections yesterday, I've yet to catch up on how that went. Which are the other countries with rising EXIT sentiment? Netherlands, France, Germany...? There's a couple more too. Seems paradoxical, those three are meant to be at the core driving the EUs ever-growing powers.
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 11:13 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:Of course there are Leave campaigners who claimed that the United Kingdom can maintain tariff-free access to the common market without freedom of movement and contributions to the EU budget.


So the EU [ex-UK] that export more to the UK than the UK exports to them are going to shoot themselves in the foot and impose tariffs? You really believe BMW, Mercedes et al are going to agree to that? Sheesh, funny old world eh.
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:59 am

JR8 wrote:So the EU [ex-UK] that export more to the UK than the UK exports to them are going to shoot themselves in the foot and impose tariffs?

Oh HELL YES if the (dis)United Kingdom doesn't agree to both freedom of movement and contributions to the EU budget. The EU simply will not compromise on those core principles. Ain't going to happen. Even Leave campaigners are (post-referendum) admitting that with their words and deeds.

You really believe BMW, Mercedes et al are going to agree to that?

BMW and Mercedes are not the European Union. BMW (at least) also has a large plant in Oxfordshire...that certainly doesn't have to be in the United Kingdom.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 1:12 am

Haha, then the EU has a shock coming when France votes to leave, followed by several others.

----
'At the same time, Germans fear emboldening Eurosceptic forces in other EU member states. The big worry in Berlin is France. A much-quoted recent poll showed the French population was even more Eurosceptic than the British. Front National leader Marine Le Pen is expected to go through to the second round of the presidential election next year and has called for a referendum on French membership of the EU. ...
The fear, though, is that the British decision to quit the EU has set in motion a dynamic of disintegration that cannot be stopped. So-called functionalist theorists of European integration believed that it would be a kind of self-perpetuating process, whereby steps in one area would lead inexorably to steps in other areas – what they called “spillovers”.
Now the same thing might happen in reverse: “spillback”.
Hans Kundnani is the author of The Paradox of German Power
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... vote-leave

Revealing that you're so opposed to democracy, on a continent you don't even come from.
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 1:14 am

Keep dreaming. And not at all credible when Scotland is headed for the exit...from the United Kingdom.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 1:15 am

JR8 wrote:Hate crime of various sorts is nothing new, is it credible to suggest these hate crimes directly result from the BREXIT vote?

Yes, oh yes.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 1:48 am

For reference, the European Union's GDP (inclusive of the United Kingdom) was about US$18.5 trillion in 2014. U.K. GDP (inclusive of Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Gibraltar) was about US$3.0 trillion in 2014. Scotland's GDP was about US$0.23 trillion (2015).

In the latest developments:

1. Most of the shadow ministers have resigned their positions in the Labour Party. (Hilary Benn was fired.) They're unhappy with Jeremy Corbyn and blame him (in part) for the Leave vote. Corbyn is staying on and will stand again if there's a leadership contest. So far there's nobody directly challenging him for the leadership.

2. EU leaders from Germany, France, and Italy -- the biggest members (and also three founding members) -- have rejected informal talks with the United Kingdom about its departure from the EU. They are absolutely clear: invoke Article 50, then we'll talk. Article 50 starts an irrevocable two year clock that can only be extended with the agreement of EU members. (Did I mention the United Kingdom is in an incredibly weak negotiating position?)

3. Sterling probed new multi decade depths, and share prices continued to fall with trading in some shares temporarily halted ("circuit breakers" invoked).

4. Financial markets are now giving about 15% odds of sterling deflation as investors have bid up gilts. The 10 year gilt is yielding about 0.93% nominal now, according to Bloomberg. Forecasters have revised their U.K. economy growth figures downward, and some are forecasting a recession in 2017.

5. Prime Minister (the PM for a little while longer) David Cameron has announced a civil service working group to handle the exit process.

6. The vast majority of MPs in Parliament supported Remain. There's now an attempt to form a majority voting bloc across parties that will keep the United Kingdom in the common market (though not in the EU), which also means freedom of movement and contributions to the EU budget -- dubbed "reverse Maastricht" (or EEA, or the "Norway model," as you prefer).

7. Gibraltar's Chief Minister, Fabian Picardo, is discussing with Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon the possibility of Scotland, Gibraltar, and perhaps also Northern Ireland remaining within the EU as the "successor state" to the United Kingdom (or something like it). This would be roughly similar to Greenland's exit (part of Denmark), in this case with England and Wales playing the role of Greenland. So it technically wouldn't be the United Kingdom that departs the EU but rather only England and Wales -- and perhaps even under some other mechanism than Article 50. Gibraltar then presumably would be a Scottish overseas territory.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 2:09 am

If anyone needs another confirmation that the European Union is fundamentally the most anti-democratic entity currently in existence, then the following statement by European Parliament Martin Schultz should put all confusion to rest.
Schulz: "The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate".
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-2 ... uropean-...
Nice.
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Tue, 28 Jun 2016 2:19 am

Want a summary of all the trade relationship options? Here they are ranging from most like EU membership to least: Norway, Switzerland, Canada, Singapore/Hong Kong, and WTO (the default). The EU is not obliged to agree to any of these models (except the WTO default), although the Norwegian model (EEA membership) is most likely available should the United Kingdom ask for it.


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