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UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Sun, 26 Jun 2016 5:48 am

Guess how many EU laws there are on spoons?
200
Towels, yes, towels FHS?
454
Milk?
12,000
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby x9200 » Sun, 26 Jun 2016 9:19 am

This is of course a part of the manipulation. It counts individual regulations for groups of products for different region or countries. These products may be sold or manufactured in any of the EU member countries so the regulations mostly aim to standardise. If not in place, people using that sort of rhetorics would surely blame EU for allowing substandard products into their countries.

And as of the quoted numbers, total No of EU issued laws is like 40k and you are saying more than 1/4th of this is about milk?

I think you, as a nation may end up one day with a big hangover for allowing to win votes of the less aware part of your society with this sort of arguments, especially that Brexit was won by a rather small fraction of votes.

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Re: RE: Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 26 Jun 2016 10:33 am

JR8 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:I thought you were a LTBH? Where you short? Hedged? or totally out of the markets? Or were you into Gold?
Edit: I got it, I remember you mentioning about investing in global funds. So although S&P 500 fell 3.5%, since Sterling fell 8%, in Sterling terms your portfolio is probably up by more than 2%. Your diversification has really helped.



Yep, I am. 'While doom, and apparent Armageddon descends' eh? :)
But the market didn't take at all kindly to it; it never likes uncertainty, so there we go.
I worry little that Sterling is down. When we retire in a few years I'll have an income and expenses in Sterling = blah, so who cares what the BBC say a burger in the US will cost me ***today!!!***. My investments derive greater trade and income from outside the UK and EU, than from within, so the dividends/income will now be worth more in FX/converted terms.

-- No I'd never invest in gold. Gold is never an investment, only ever speculation, and if you want a fools game...
--- Diversification. Long both sides, stocks on one, property on another. To a good extent they self-hedge. In such a scheme just keep a solid margin for the once in 20-year whirlwind.... meanwhile just ride the tortoise.

JR8, my comment was for BBCWatcher.

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Re: RE: Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 26 Jun 2016 10:42 am

JR8 wrote:
BBCWatcher wrote:In sterling terms Friday was a good day, personally.


But of course. If there was one person to benefit from it... :) [So don't be shy, tell us what bets and deals you have 'laid']


BBCWatcher's portfolio is global, like those MSCI world etfs. Sterling went down 8%. His portfolio denominated in USD [may be] went down by 3-4%. So in Sterling terms his portfolio is still up.



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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby rajagainstthemachine » Sun, 26 Jun 2016 11:22 am

And in other hilarity thats been making the rounds.

http://www.thebetterindia.com/59636/bre ... territory/
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 26 Jun 2016 1:52 pm

European bank stocks have been absolutely pummeled. Some serious damage has happened to the market caps of European banks. Deutsche, Barclays, Credit Suisse etc. Infact now many Asian banks are larger than these once bellwether European banks.

https://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3 ... uATBwYLACQ

https://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3 ... uATBwYLACQ

https://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3 ... ugTfnYL4Bg

https://www.google.com/finance?q=OTCMKT ... uATN4YiwCg

https://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3 ... ugTfnYL4Bg

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby x9200 » Sun, 26 Jun 2016 2:04 pm

EU storage: you have 1GB of free space right now.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby PNGMK » Sun, 26 Jun 2016 8:08 pm

I found this comment interesting:

From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby x9200 » Sun, 26 Jun 2016 8:44 pm

There are also some strong opinions that the UK can not trigger any action based on Article 50 without the agreement from the Scottish and Irish parliaments.

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Re: RE: Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 26 Jun 2016 10:05 pm

PNGMK wrote:I found this comment interesting:

From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

Interesting! So Brexit may not actually happen.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:54 pm

x9200 wrote:There are also some strong opinions that the UK can not trigger any action based on Article 50 without the agreement from the Scottish and Irish parliaments.

That's absolutely correct under current law. The Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland parliaments need to sign off on an EU exit. Scotland in particular is a problem since every party in Scotland sided with "Remain," and so did the voters. Northern Ireland is then a problem if Scotland is a problem, and Northern Ireland also happens to be the only part of the United Kingdom that shares a land border with the rest of the EU (another big problem).

Westminster is still supreme, so it could "simply" change the devolution law. Of course that would push even harder on Scotland to leave the Kingdom.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby BBCWatcher » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:55 pm

PNGMK wrote:I found this comment interesting:
From the guardians comments section....

I largely agree with that analysis. The dog has caught the car, basically.

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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 1:04 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:
PNGMK wrote:I found this comment interesting:
From the guardians comments section....

I largely agree with that analysis. The dog has caught the car, basically.

Lovely simile/analogy/metaphor.
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Re: UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

Postby JR8 » Mon, 27 Jun 2016 5:00 pm

Wd40 wrote:Vote Leave explicitly targeted people concerned about immigration, warning them that millions of Turks were on their way to Britain. The morning after they won Boris Johnson, their leading spokesman and the favorite to succeed David Cameron as prime minister, began backing away from that message.


Immigration was one of the issues. The reason is not regarding legal immigration, it is about economic migrants. Consider the riots and rapes in Cologne over Xmas/NYE, same people, this is fresh in everyone's minds. People who arrive in the backs of lorries or in dinghies, and then get 'free everything' [housing, healthcare, education, cash benefits etc etc] for life. It is like winning the lottery, paid for by the people who work and pay taxes. It is no surprise that there is resentment of that.
For example, say you expat to the UK, get a good job, and pay high taxes, but live a reasonable middle-class life only to see people arrive 'win the lottery' and live a better quality of life than you do at your expense. Would you be a supporter of that?
The poster shown in your link is a UKIP poster. Note well: they are a rather fringe single-issue party and not reflective of the mainstream. But they channel some of the above discontent, simply because no other party does. The photograph shows one of the streams of economic migrants crossing Europe, from the Middle East/north Africa and heading for where-ever they think will be the biggest lottery. We have people such as these, camped out on the smuggling route to the EU waiting for someone to give them a lift, on the neighbouring street-corners every night. It's why I won't go out on foot after dark, they're desperate and it's far too dangerous.

Turkey is not in Europe, or rather the c97% of it including it's capital isn't i.e. the part east of the Bosphorus river; so why should it be allowed to enter the EU? It's poor, it's an autocracy, it has a completely state controlled media, it currently shelters hundreds of thousands of economic migrants en route to wealthier Europe. If the EU admits Turkey, the first horde to enter will be all these migrants. The Turkish PM has said if accession talks are delayed he'll initiate the transport of these migrants to the border of the EU, ridding himself of a problem, i.e. making his problem the EUs. It's blackmail; are you surprised people are angry about this ridiculous situation? The EU is being black-mailed by an Islamist autocrat who resides in the Middle-East.

At such a point people are like WTF!? The last vote in the 70s was to join a free-trade zone of 9 countries. And they ask themselves, so how is it now that EU policy is being strong-armed by a Middle-Eastern virtual dictator. See the problem?

It's not about legal migration. It's about people just having had enough of all the above.
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